I DID move from your border!

aafritz17 · Jun 12, 2016

I had soldiers on Arabia's border (with Bad Intentions!), but I was not ready to DOW. So when he challenged them, I moved all my units at least 4 hexes away. My understanding was 3 hexes for 3 turns would satisfy my "moving through" answer.

It was at least 10 turns later when I DOWed him, which got me the LIAR! modifier.

What gives? Anybody know how this mechanic actually works?

starstrider · Jun 12, 2016

If you attack within 50 turns you are a liar.

aafritz17 · Jun 12, 2016

Fifty-freakin' turns, eh? Geez........

Thanx, though, for the help.

beetle · Jun 12, 2016

aafritz17 said:
My understanding was 3 hexes for 3 turns would satisfy my "moving through" answer.

Where did you get that 3/3 idea from?

starstrider said:
If you attack within 50 turns you are a liar.

Others have made this 50 turn assertion as well, but I am sure that number is pulled out of thin air!

If nothing else, in more than one game I have gotten the demand twice from the same AI, and the second demand was well before fifty turns had passed.

I would love to know the mechanics behind this “move or DOW” demand because I have pretty much given up trying to game it.

docbud · Jun 12, 2016

^^I'd love to know as well. And fifty turns is a long time. I could see 20 or something, but 50?

I'd also like to know how many of my troops have to be near their borders. I'm prett sure I had one unit (possibly a second traveling) guarding a worker near their border and that demand was made.

I could see if I had massive troops massed, but one or two?

And again--fifty turns seems like an eternity.

Acken · Jun 12, 2016

It is 20 turns :

Spoiler :

As for when the demand is made it looks at your units that it can see that are somewhere near its borders. 3 is medium 5 is high agressivity. It will ask if you go from none to medium or from whatever to high (compared to previous turn). It doesn't seem to care if your units are not together. A unit in your own border counts for half and it also doesn't care if it "correctly sees" that you are at war with someone nearby.

Makenshi · Jun 13, 2016

One scout in their eastern border, another in the western, more than 16 tiles apart from each other: "OMG you have a large number near me, move!". I consider it a sort of AI cheat, so I use a mod that eliminates any penalty regarding this.

stormtrooper412 · Jun 13, 2016

I just declare war outright and assemble an army on the fly because I don't like when people call me a liar

Gordon Brittas · Jun 13, 2016

It always annoys me when you can't say it back to them, when their units are dancing all over your border.

docbud · Jun 13, 2016

Thanks, Acken, for letting us know it's 20 turns and not fifty. I appreciate it.

aafritz17 · Jun 13, 2016

Thanks, Acken. And it's great to see the actual code, too.

aafritz17 · Jun 14, 2016

beetle said:
Where did you get that 3/3 idea from?

Not sure, it was a while ago. It was obviously about something else.

I wonder what THAT was.....................

danaphanous · Jun 14, 2016

unfortunately 20 turns is still far longer then you wanted to wait if you were planning an invasion.

All your troops will be outdated! I usually just immediately declare war if this gets asked these days. Also I don't think they can ask this if you have open borders, is there a downside to obtaining this to avoid getting the question when you line the borders?

beetle · Jun 14, 2016

danaphanous said:
unfortunately 20 turns is still far longer then you wanted to wait if you were planning an invasion.

It is good to have a number!

I usually just immediately declare war if this gets asked these days.

Me too.

Also I don't think they can ask this if you have open borders, is there a downside to obtaining this to avoid getting the question when you line the borders?

The demand triggers regardless of OB.

aafritz17 · Jun 14, 2016

danaphanous said:
unfortunately 20 turns is still far longer then you wanted to wait if you were planning an invasion. All your troops will be outdated! I usually just immediately declare war if this gets asked these days. Also I don't think they can ask this if you have open borders, is there a downside to obtaining this to avoid getting the question when you line the borders?

Actually, in this very war I (Germany) was killing frigates coming out of Medina. Needed a close place to heal one of mine, so I called the Shoshone 911 and got open borders with them. Had one in their territory healing, 3 or 4 others fighting right outside his border, when he pipes up "My citizens are getting panic attacks from you!". I left the one in there healing, but moved the battle a couple hexes away, and that seemed to satisfy him.

That is the only time I remember getting challenged when I had open borders. But I'm pretty sure we had already agreed in this thread that my memory ain't so good...

docbud · Jun 14, 2016

danaphanous said:
unfortunately 20 turns is still far longer then you wanted to wait if you were planning an invasion. All your troops will be outdated! I usually just immediately declare war if this gets asked these days.

Very true. I now just declare war as well. But it sucks because all my troops were still marching towards that territory and I have to go to war several turns before I wanted to.

But--maybe that's a good thing. I know I get antsy when I see the AI troops dancing around my borders.

Callonia · Jun 14, 2016

The fact I can't put the Liar modifier onto the AI is one of reasons why I choose to declare war on the spot even when I didn't plan on hurting the AI in first place because my troops was passing on by to hurt someone else. Might as well as remove someone who tries to get 50 turn one sided non-aggression pact instead.

Diplomacy is two way street, not one way. If i can't have fun insulting my AI or obtaining 50 turn non-aggression pact at and putting the AI at risk for being outed as a liar then there's no point.

beetle · Jun 14, 2016

^^ Twenty turns, not fifty.

But I feel like the AI needs any buff it can get, so this one-sided aspect of the game hardly troubles me. Would you trade being able to put liar modifier onto the AI for being able to move and shoot your archer on the same turn?

Callonia · Jun 15, 2016

beetle said:
^^ Twenty turns, not fifty.

But I feel like the AI needs any buff it can get, so this one-sided aspect of the game hardly troubles me. Would you trade being able to put liar modifier onto the AI for being able to move and shoot your archer on the same turn?

Firaxis just need to stop being lazy and program the AI to move and shoot their ranged units in same turn. They're just using mods to fix this huge error for them and not do official patch.

I DID move from your border!

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