Spain = God Tier

So me and a few buddies started up a quick game of civ. They played Ethiopia, Enland and Greece but I decided to roll the dice and try Spain for fun. I spawn right beside lake Victoria and Mt. Kill. I grabbed "One with Nature" and found something fantastic... One with Nature is doubled with spain's UA so its turn 29 and I'm making 20 FPT. The only problem is my 2nd city is at 7 population from lake Victoria and my happiness is falling pretty fast.

Have you guys ever had luck any Spain? Tell me your story!

Agreed. Once i found Sinai and Kailash before turn 15. 45 fpt few turns later. I was jammed between Maya and Ethiopia though (deity), so it wasn't as much fun as it could have been. Went for Spanish "tradition 6 city opener" and won my fastest cultural victory.

I wouldn't put Spain on God Tier because they really do depend on location too much. Sure, if you have those natural wonders nearby, they are nearly unstoppable, but if you don't have anything that close then you're gonna be in for a bad time as they then basically don't have a UA.

The best start I've ever got with Spain was a Lake Victoria/Uluru capital city, then I got 2 tiles of Great Barrier Reef in my second city, King Solomon's mines + Petra in my 3rd city and I also found El Dorado on around the 12th turn (It was too close to a city state to settle it), so that gave me 2 instant settlers.

But more often than not I've had no natural wonders with Spain, and then they just play so boring.

Moriarte said:

Agreed. Once i found Sinai and Kailash before turn 15. 45 fpt few turns later. I was jammed between Maya and Ethiopia though (deity), so it wasn't as much fun as it could have been. Went for Spanish "tradition 6 city opener" and won my fastest cultural victory.

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Wow, Sorry man but I love your Civ 5 LP's (very laid back for someone on deity!) and I have to ask how would I preform a "Tradition 6 City opener"? Just Scout, Scout, Granary, Library, Settler, Settler, Settler, Settler, Settler? or would I build the settlers in a second city? I assume you would buy 2 with the money you get from Natural Wonders.

One of the best game I ever had with Spain.

few turns later...

I did annexed Sidon buy the lands near FoY and spawn a GG next to it, 20 Happiness is a must.
I win cultural Victory on early Modern Era.

+20 happiness? There goes any happiness problem for the rest of the game!

knightmare13 said:

One of the best game I ever had with Spain.

Spoiler :

few turns later...

Spoiler :

I did annexed Sidon buy the lands near FoY and spawn a GG next to it, 20 Happiness is a must.
I win cultural Victory on early Modern Era.

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Was this on deity? Do you mind sharing the turn 0 start for that map?

YourHarry said:

Was this on deity? Do you mind sharing the turn 0 start for that map?

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I think this was on King or Emperor, sorry this was like 2 months old, this Screen shots was all left of it.

Edit: Happy New Year. 2014 !

Doctor Doom said:

Wow, Sorry man but I love your Civ 5 LP's (very laid back for someone on deity!) and I have to ask how would I preform a "Tradition 6 City opener"? Just Scout, Scout, Granary, Library, Settler, Settler, Settler, Settler, Settler? or would I build the settlers in a second city? I assume you would buy 2 with the money you get from Natural Wonders.

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First two settlers bought with cash, then quick NC, then 2 more settlers hard built in cap. and the last one bought.

I think it was more like: scout, scout, shrine (joking), granary, 2 archers, library, archer, caravan, NC.

God Tier Civs have to be able to perform admirably without leaning on their start position as a crutch. With Spain, how well you do really is dependent on the amount of close-by natural wonders if you have a lot of natural wonders, or a really good one, then you're going to do well! If you don't, then you're just like any other Civ, really.

I was stupid and don't have a save file but in one game Lake Victoria AND King Solomon's Mine was workable by the same city. Needless to say WONDER SPAAAAAAAAAAM

I don't use tiers because I think its dumb to sort civs in arbitary groups which don't say me anything anyway how well you can do with the civ compared to all others.

Spain UA is focused on the early game and can give you a very strong early game which will probably leand to a win however even if you don't get anything from it you still got your two UUs.

Terico is a stronger but more exapnsive musketman who got the pike bonus vs cavalry, a very strong unit.

Conquistador gets a lot of bonuses and can even be used as settlers if needed.

Denkt said:

I don't use tiers because I think its dumb to sort civs in arbitary groups which don't say me anything anyway how well you can do with the civ compared to all others.

Spain UA is focused on the early game and can give you a very strong early game which will probably leand to a win however even if you don't get anything from it you still got your two UUs.

Terico is a stronger but more exapnsive musketman who got the pike bonus vs cavalry, a very strong unit.

Conquistador gets a lot of bonuses and can even be used as settlers if needed.

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It's indisputable that e.g. Inca >>> Denmark. So long as any kind of differences in performance exist, tiers are a valid concept. Of course some civs are close to each other in performance, and then it comes down to personal skill/preference. Map type is also a factor -- mostly whether it's a water or land-heavy map.

Imo Spain plays best on a world map (), as the risk of finding suitable wonders is eliminated; you always get Gibraltar, and Sinai is fairly close by if you want to take it over. If you prioritze Astronomy, colonizing Australia is a valid tactic for a game-winning move (Reef + Uluru + One with Nature = gg).

rawrtrav said:

I wouldn't put Spain on God Tier because they really do depend on location too much.

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I agree with you so far....

Sure, if you have those natural wonders nearby, they are nearly unstoppable, but if you don't have anything that close then you're gonna be in for a bad time as they then basically don't have a UA.

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I used to think this was the case, but I've been playing Spain a lot recently. One thing I've noticed: 9 times out of 10 there is at least one natural wonder within early settler range. Between Spain's inherent UA and the beefed up version of "One With Nature" that Spain gets, even the worst natural wonder is still a very good tile. So Spain's second city usually benefits from a good-to-amazing tile depending on which natural wonder(s) you get. And often their third city also benefits from a good-to-amazing tile.

What's more, thanks to their UA they're usually able to buy an additional settler very early, thus allowing them to get those awesome second and third cities started real early.

In short, Spain only performs as a civ "without a UA" if you have very very bad luck. Most of the time they play as a top tier civ, although they only play as a god tier civ if you get one of the really good natural wonders. Their only downside (besides the rare possibility that you don't have any natural wonders) is that you have to be willing to settle your second & third cities wherever those natural wonders are found. My Spanish empires tend to be sprawled all over the damn place, and getting a nice, contiguous border can be a bit of a challenge.

rawrtrav said:

The best start I've ever got with Spain was a Lake Victoria/Uluru capital city, then I got 2 tiles of Great Barrier Reef in my second city, King Solomon's mines + Petra in my 3rd city and I also found El Dorado on around the 12th turn (It was too close to a city state to settle it), so that gave me 2 instant settlers.

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The thing is, of course, that if you have a game with that kind of setup, you've pretty much won the game anyway regardless of your civ. Spain's just a very nice perk.

Spain can turn a strong start into a game-winning one if you land by Lake Victoria, GBR or Krakatoa, but too often either - as you say - it does nothing (or you get Grand Mesa), you get a nice-but-not-game-breaking-by-itself bonus like Uluru or Fuji (or El Dorado without being the first to find it), or it just shaves a lot of turns off a game you were going to win anyway because you have a setup like the above or the Victoria/Uluru capital someone mentioned in another post.

Start next to two amazing wonders and Spain is the best civ in the game. But I always start near something crappy like Old Faithful, if I get any wonder at all. I have like no luck with Spain...

I think too many people give Old Faithful too much flak. Sure, it's just 2 science and 3 happiness, but I've had many cases of its location being quite good. Near river, near bonus resources, more luxuries and it counts as an observatory mountain! And +3 happiness kinda softens up the city unhappiness. But I suppose I've been lucky.

Now Krakatoa... more like Crapatoa... It's almost always unworkable.

In lots of cases,you have to compete with a CS since lots of NWs spawn near a CS,making your city location a little bit problematic.

Doctor Doom said:

So me and a few buddies started up a quick game of civ. They played Ethiopia, Enland and Greece but I decided to roll the dice and try Spain for fun. I spawn right beside lake Victoria and Mt. Kill. I grabbed "One with Nature" and found something fantastic... One with Nature is doubled with spain's UA so its turn 29 and I'm making 20 FPT. The only problem is my 2nd city is at 7 population from lake Victoria and my happiness is falling pretty fast.

Have you guys ever had luck any Spain? Tell me your story!

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That's why Spain rocks!

I had few lucky games with Spain, in one game I got three NW in the same area and turn them into powerful titles, while getting fully enhanced religion by turn 15-20.

In other game, I got Solomon's Mines and Lake Victoria both in 3 range of my capital (I had to waste few turns to move settler from starting position tho) ... That's +12 hammers and +12 food, plus 16 faith per turn from OWN pantheon.

Spain is fun to play, because it encourages you to explore more then you would normally do (with Conquistadors) since you really want those NW. and if someone else has it, take it by force or citadel bomb.

In the start OP rolled; and in fact any start in which as Spain you are first to discover any 2 national wonders; it's in the God Tier category.

However, on starts in which you fail to be the first to discover any natural wonder; it's a below average civ.