best wonder

I think the Oracle ... isn't usually regarded as a very good wonder.
That is an overstatement. Oracle is quite disliked by advanced human players and interestingly the AI does not like it much either. If it is not the most likely wonder to be available-but-not-buillt-yet by game's end, it is definitely among the top 3 in that category.
 
It depends a lot on the strategies you use (and the difficulty level too!). Here's my take (I often play with King difficulty, although I can handle Emperor if I want a tougher game):

Pyramids --> Doesn't expire and it lets your cities grow faster. I normally don't bother with granaries, and prefer to expand fast and worry about city improvements later, so I usually don't build it, since I don't particularly need my cities to grow fast in the first stages of the game (then I would have to build temples, etc, when I could be building lots of settlers and, when necessary, military units). Nice but not my top priority. I can understand other people liking it, though.

Hanging Gardens --> Not really a top priority with me (I'm more selective in the first part of the game, when resources are so precious and important to expand fast). Expires with Railroad, and it would be more interesting if it lasted longer. Would be more important at higher levels, when discontent becomes a real problem.

Colossus --> I usually didn't bother with it, but since I learned the SSC strategy, it becomes an important part of the development of that city. It expires, but it lasts long enough (till Flight). Very good one for SSC.

Lighthouse --> I don't bother with it, unless I'm isolated on a small island with no land in sight, to send colonists without losing the trirreme.

Great Library --> Worth it, unless you are far ahead in technology (and then you probably will win no matter what), or unless you can easily get technologies some other way. If you are not the strongest (and you don't have the ultra hostile AIs that came with Civ2 MGE) you can probably trade technologies. And if you are the strongest then you can probably get them through conquest or stealing. So, very nice one, but I don't find it as extremely necessary as I used to. It lasts till Electricity, which is reasonable. In Civ1 it expired much earlier.

Oracle --> I don't bother with it, but like Hanging Gardens it depends on your strategy and the difficulty setting. It expires sooner than I would have liked (Theology).

Great Wall --> Since it only doubles your defensive strength against barbarians (I usually don't play with strong barbarians) and expires relatively early (with Metallurgy) I wouldn't bother, unless you have a particularly troublesome neighbor and you really need to get them to sign peace agreements to give you time to improve your defenses. (When that happens, you can also bribe them with money or knowledge.) With hostile AIs it would be a bit more valuable.

Sun Tzu's War Academy --> Not bad. It doesn't expire until Mobile warfare and having veteran units is very important for combat. I really dislike building lots of barracks, and I usually don't, so this would be an alternative. Also, I prefer to conquer through bribing enemy cities, so it would be more important for a player who fights a lot. Very nice, but not essential.

King Richard's Crusade --> Like the Colossus, very important for SSC, to get it to build wonders quickly. I wouldn't bother when I don't use the SSC tactic. Expires with Industrialisation, sooner than I would have liked but still good enough to make it valuable.

Marco Polo's Embassy --> Not absolutely necessary, but I appreciate it much more than I used to. The important thing is that it gives you access to other civs so that you can trade technologies with them. If you have MGE's hostile AIs it's not worth it, though. If you have Great library that's not as important.

Michelangelo's Chapel --> Really important. Doesn't expire, and you save a lot of resources and upkeep by not having to build cathedrals in every city. Build it.

Copernicus' Observatory --> Really important for SSC. Not as important otherwise. Doesn't expire.

Magellan's Expedition --> Not important for me. I usually don't pay much attention to seas, unless when I really need to. Doesn't expire.

Shakespeare's Theatre --> Really important for SSC. Not as important otherwise, although it's kind of nice to have a big city to make lots of military units if you need to wage a limited war in democracy. Doesn't expire.

Leonardo's Workshop --> Really nice, to save a lot of time and resources to update your military units, particularly if you have a big civilization. Till Automobile.

All the rest never expire:

J. S. Bach's Cathedral --> Really important, like Michelangelo's Chapel. A cathedral makes more citizens content, but you can't duplicate the effect of this wonder. Only affects cities in the same continent, so be careful with that. Obviously it's not as useful if there are no big continents.

Isaac Newton's College --> Like the Observatory, it's really important for SSC. Not as important otherwise.

Adam Smith's Trading Co. --> Very nice for a large civilization. Saves lots of money.

Darwin's Voyage --> Nice, of course, but not absolutely necessary. You can normally get your techs in other ways.

Statue of Liberty --> It's a pity you don't get access to this one sooner, because getting all governments earlier would be very good. More useful if you like changing governments often, of course, like people who change from democracy to fundamentalism when they go to war. Me, I prefer democracy, to generate lots of cash and science. With money, you can fight effectively even in democracy. Avoiding anarchy when you change government or when your democracy falls is cool too.

Eiffel Tower --> Nice, but not essential. Depends on how much you care about what other civs think of you.

Women's Suffrage --> Very good for democracies (or republics), to relax the penalties for military units outside the city. By this stage, you often can afford to build wonders easily, so go for it. If you prefer other governments you don't need it that much, obviously.

Hoover Dam --> Very good if you build lots of factories. I normally don't bother with many factories, because by this time my empire is usually quite big and I don't really need it. If you are not clearly dominant at this stage it's really worth it, though.

Manhattan Project --> Don't like building this. If I'm dominant I don't need nukes, and if I'm not... well, let's say the AIs are often a bit free about using nukes against you if they don't like you.

United Nations --> Very nice. By this stage I can easily build wonders, and this is a good one. Embassies plus forcing other civs to sign peace.

Apollo Program --> It doesn't matter who builds it, and it starts the space race. If you are at an advantage and you want to win by spaceship, you need to build it yourself.

SETI Program --> Really good to speed science in the last part of the game. Of course, there are not many technologies left at that stage, but there are some. Very nice for discovering them fast without a lot of expense in research centers.

Cure for Cancer --> Like Hanging gardens but without expiring. Nice. I usually build it (but by this stage I'm usually dominant, so I can afford it). I imagine than in tougher difficulty settings it becomes more important, like all happiness-related wonders.



Other takes:
http://apolyton.net/content.php/476-CIV-2-Wonders-of-the-World-RATING-FAQ-by-Radiospace
http://www.cheatbook.de/wfiles/civilizationiiwonders.htm
 
What goal do you play for? I think the Oracle is used in some early landing strategies, but other than that, it isn't usually regarded as a very good wonder. It has two major drawbacks. The first is that you need to build temples to get any effect (not to mention the cities have to be big enough to need the extra contentment). The second is that it is made obsolete by Theology, which makes the much better Bach's Cathedral available (not to mention the extra content citizen for cathedrals).

By the time I get Theology, I'm already roflpwning everyone :)

The trouble with this statement is that you don't "get" Wonders, you build them. Building a wonder, especially an early wonder, takes resources that would otherwise be used to build more cities. So with early wonders, you have to weigh the cost of diminished growth to the benefits you get from it.

That's true of every wonder, not just Oracle.
 
That's true of every wonder, not just Oracle.
well especially early wonders can halt your growth a lot. Or at least slow it down too much.
Early shields have cumulative worth.
1 city makes shields into a settler, then those 2 cities produce 2 new settlers and you'd have 4 cities. Then 8, then 16 etc.
Imagine if the second city made a wonder, then instead of 1, 2, 4, 8, 16... it'd be 1, 2, 3, 5, 9.
It doesn't exactly work like that, but you get the idea.
Halting one city to produce a wonder halts your civilization in the long run.
 
well especially early wonders can halt your growth a lot. Or at least slow it down too much.
Early shields have cumulative worth.

Yes, that's completely true. In the beginning, when you have room to grow, you need to expand fast, and devoting resources to other things may not be a good idea. Later, when you have more cities, it's easier to concentrate on wonders. It doesn't mean wonders aren't worth the effort, but you have to be more selective.
 
best wonder for me is the manhattan project.
Because power of the great damage.
Enemy to fear me.
 
I think both the hanging garden and the pyramids are worth to build, they actually help you expand faster. When the first citizen is red or black you actually need to let the city grow to size two or three anyway before it can do anything, and that gets much faster with pyramids, and HG ofcourse speaks for itself, but the added benefit is that you can get a good size 5-6 capital with extra trade on every square. Contributing to your economy just as much as 10 extra cities. Best ofcourse is HG in combination with the Colossus if you want to start an early research center, but the Colossus is also usually very profitable in foreign hands. The AI tends to build it early anyway so I usually have to choose between happiness and extra arrows and happiness always win.

Best wonder is no doubt Michelangelos Chapel. There are alot of Wonders that are nice to have but instant cathedrals in every city for no maintaince is hard to beat. Once you have this wonder you can celebrate your way to wealth and supremacy.
 
In Civ 2 I can build enough cities to get almost any wonder I choose. Though it is the second to last level in the game and I have to choose wisely.

It looks like you'll take ones that directly/indirectly help science and happiness. I'm mostly rush-building the wonders that deal with it.

Not being equal I value science, happiness, and revenue in that order yet need all of them in some way to progress.
 
The best wonder is always the one that is helping you the most in your current situation.
 
Leonardo's Workshop is one that gives you an instant feelgood. There was this one time I built LW and it didn't automatically change my production of warriors I had 10 shields in that city and I was making a tech a turn from ship-chained trade routes I was knocking a warrior out and moving it straight away into another city to re-home it same turn. Next turn it gets upgraded* on new tech discovery, while I make another warrior and I just happily kept it going re-homing and disbanding. I think I will try to exploit this tactic also ship-chains can be disbanded and upgraded but there is nothing like it happening on the fly the way it does with LW.
It was a lot better than storing up warriors waiting for Leonardo's Workshop as you incur heavy support shields costs.
Oracle is fantastic if you can get the gold quickly for temples 9 You need a heck of a lot of momentum though), please trust me on this. You get HG and big trade route arrows you have no problems WLTPD ing all the way up to size 24 city And you won't have to get Shakespeare's.
 
Leonardo's Workshop is one that gives you an instant feelgood. There was this one time I built LW and it didn't automatically change my production of warriors I had 10 shields in that city and I was making a tech a turn from ship-chained trade routes I was knocking a warrior out and moving it straight away into another city to re-home it same turn. Next turn it gets upgraded* on new tech discovery, while I make another warrior and I just happily kept it going re-homing and disbanding. I think I will try to exploit this tactic also ship-chains can be disbanded and upgraded but there is nothing like it happening on the fly the way it does with LW.
It was a lot better than storing up warriors waiting for Leonardo's Workshop as you incur heavy support shields costs.
You gave me an idea there. But Warriors were obsolete long before LW became available in my games. Warriors becomes obsolete with Feudalism. I can probably avoid getting Feudalism, but Feudalism is the second tech in its path and I like to discover it because it allows Pikemen. LW recuires Invention and Invention is the fourth tech in its path.

So you rehomed the Warrior after it had been upgraded to something more expensive and gained shields. Clever if the new unit was worth at least 30 shields. :)
 
This is a known tactic that can be achieved with researching Gunpowder before Feudalism and having Leo. As long as you do not have Feudalism cities already producing warriors can conitnue to do so. (No new cities can be swithced to warriors post Gunpowder.) Those warriors upgrade to musketeers upon the next tech discovery which can then be disbanded gaining 5 extra shields. If you also get conscription the musketeers will also be upgraded to rifleman which give 10 extra shields upon disbanding. Sounds like a great exploit and it is fun watching it happen. But after the frist couple of times (when the fun wears out) this is hardly worth the effort. The exploit is not all that much and it is diminished by support cost if you are in Republic or Democracy by then. To take maximum advantage of this exploit takes a lot of careful planning and setup.
 
What is the Warrior going to be upgraded to before you get Invention/Musketeers? Musketeers cost only 30 shields which only gives you 15 when disbanding. So you net only 5 shields from a 30-shield unit.
And prior to Musketeers you have to disband a 20-shield unit for the same 10 shields that you put into the Warrior?

I guess it's fun to "steal" 5 shields, but I suspect it might be more beneficial to bribe cheap barbarians. Maybe if you can steal those 5 shields 50 or 100 times it will amount to a noticeable benefit.

And you might get Feudalism earlier than you want simply because what you really want to research is hidden in the tech tree, or you are unlucky and pop it from a goody hut.

@Ali
I don't think unit support is an issue here, the units gets disbanded quickly enough.
 
I think the big problem is time. You have a finite number of turns before the game reaches 2020. Do you really want to spend your turns building and disbanding warriors? Instead you could be building wonders, improvements, or better units.
 
@Ali
I don't think unit support is an issue here, the units gets disbanded quickly enough.
It is an issue. As I have said I have done this a couple of times before. This is done before railroads and even with roads it takes a turn or two to get the unit to a place were disbanding it makes sense. even one turn eats a shield which is 20 percent of your final reward of 5 shields.
 
The exploit is not all that much and it is diminished by support cost if you are in Republic or Democracy by then. To take maximum advantage of this exploit takes a lot of careful planning and setup.[/QUOTE]
Usually very true but there is only 1 support cost here each turn Im disbanding after the upgrade into my developing SSC city to avoid sheid starting costs that as you well know come at a premium after the discovery of gunpowder
Lance - a word of warning you need to be at a tech a turn for this *through ship chaining trade routes or the unit will not upgrade and then its not really worth it mate. Ali does seem to know what he's talking about:)
I want to know if anyone else does this -
I always build my cities very close together and share resources such as whales or worked land using to zoom to home city trick while I'm at it I sometimes charge settlers inside a newer city and rehome them to that city when it processes its turn but before it has processed the home city the settler belongs to.
It is complicated but its fun.
 
I want to know if anyone else does this -
I always build my cities very close together and share resources such as whales or worked land using to zoom to home city trick while I'm at it I sometimes charge settlers inside a newer city and rehome them to that city when it processes its turn but before it has processed the home city the settler belongs to.
It is complicated but its fun.
I have been here over a decade and I have never heard anyone use this exploit. The technique is certainly known but I have only heard it used for finishing a wonder the same turn its tech is discovered or building space ship parts the same turn Apollo is built. Doing this consistently of course takes a lot of detailed micromanaging but it sounds like fun. You are obviously an adept player. Hope to see more of you and the other guys in this forum over at our monthly game competition: GOTM 140 got posted a week ago.
 
Lance - a word of warning you need to be at a tech a turn for this *through ship chaining trade routes or the unit will not upgrade and then its not really worth it mate. Ali does seem to know what he's talking about:)
Why do you need to discover a tech each turn for this to work? I built LW one time and it upgraded my units. And I did certainly not discover a new tech each turn, I don't do that well. So I must be missing something here.


I always build my cities very close together and share resources such as whales or worked land using to zoom to home city trick while I'm at it I sometimes charge settlers inside a newer city and rehome them to that city when it processes its turn but before it has processed the home city the settler belongs to.
It is complicated but its fun.
Do you mean charging Settlers and storing "work-time" in them for later use? I have done that (as explained by Gastrifitis) but I don't understand the purpose with the re-homing you talk about.

I'm not that good in English language and I easily get confused when people don't use punctuation in long sentences. Like right now.
 
Leo's upgrades units once when it is built, then again each time a tech is discovered (until Automobile). If you're not getting a tech each turn, you'll have to wait longer for some of the warrior to upgrade, and since upkeep costs 20% of your profit each turn, it cuts into the effectiveness of the already dubious strategy.
 
Leo's upgrades units once when it is built, then again each time a tech is discovered (until Automobile). If you're not getting a tech each turn, you'll have to wait longer for some of the warrior to upgrade, and since upkeep costs 20% of your profit each turn, it cuts into the effectiveness of the already dubious strategy.

I understand this much better! :)
But one thing is still a bit unclear to me: If I already got Gunpowder that makes Musketeers possible, and I continue to build Warriors, will not LW upgrade them to Musketeers instantly? That's what I expect...
 
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