When do you build Shrines?

Monument=Shrine=Scout=Wonder

Immortal and Diety AI rushes Stonehenge. I usually go the standard GL after writing. I wouldn't gamble on Stonehenge. Spending several production cycles on something I might not get (even if i get gold compensation) is a huge waste of time.

Scout -> Shrine -> GL -> Worker
Policy is Tradition -> Aristocracy -> Legalism. Legalism goes before Aristocracy if I'm on Emperor or lower.

Don't you guys get bum-rushed by the other Civs if you don't make any early units?

If I'm playing a nation with no other faith generation I rush buy the shrine with my first 250 gold.

My opener has always and will always be scout- monument- warrior - worker- settler - wonder

Monument->Worker->Stonehenge, the AI is most of the time not keen on SH (on Immortal - some Deity tries)

But you can forget about the Great Library obviously then.

SammyKhalifa said:

Don't you guys get bum-rushed by the other Civs if you don't make any early units?

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Sometimes, but I get my warrior out Barb Hunting ASAP to get gold for Archer or Warrior, does not always work, sometime i get killed fast. I just reroll and try again. Really depends on how close your newest neighbor is, some AI's will not mess with you early, If I have Russia, Rome or Mongolia real close, I will focus on military more. You have to be fluild of course, I like Scout/Monument/Shrine now, but if I feel threatend I will certianly change that order.

Randall_Flagg said:

Sometimes, but I get my warrior out Barb Hunting ASAP to get gold for Archer or Warrior, does not always work, sometime i get killed fast. I just reroll and try again. Really depends on how close your newest neighbor is, some AI's will not mess with you early, If I have Russia, Rome or Mongolia real close, I will focus on military more. You have to be fluild of course, I like Scout/Monument/Shrine now, but if I feel threatend I will certianly change that order.

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Ah, I see. I've taken lately to going scout-worker. I used to start with two scouts, but I think I may have been hurting myself doing that.

I've also been making shrine before monument. That may be because of the "newness" of religion and just wanting to play with that, but also I think I know that the New Legalism will get me one soon enough if I put it off and make something else instead.

I have a hard time with the barbarians unless I can double team them, so I usually do scout, warrior, warrior. Everybody in this thread seems to be less warlike than that. Don't you end up retreating your single warrior often when confronted with a barb in a camp and a roving barb?

SammyKhalifa said:

Ah, I see. I've taken lately to going scout-worker. I used to start with two scouts, but I think I may have been hurting myself doing that.

I've also been making shrine before monument. That may be because of the "newness" of religion and just wanting to play with that, but also I think I know that the New Legalism will get me one soon enough if I put it off and make something else instead.

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Well the only reason I do Scout/Mon/shrine is I have to research pottery before shrine, scouts take me 12-19 turns Pottery is 32 turns normally, can be as low as 30.
Monument after scout takes 20-24 turns. So not really a preferance, just the way it flows, given a choice Shrine would be 1st. Anyways, I turn ruins off, so no real need for more then 1 scout.

Dac yes of course,my warriors run and retreat a lot, but that is the price you pay for early barb hunting lol, hit once run, run back rinse and repeat. Once you get the 2 upgrades though they become much better and faster.

Scout-Worker-Shrine-Monument

Monument > Scout > Scout > Worker (if a nearby tile I can upgrade - slow research game so anything apart from Farm would have to wait) > Shrine

Usually Pottery is my first tech (even back in Vanillla - now, moreso to get Faith started quickly).

Can't stand standard Civ speed... I did my Mon > Sc > Sc > Work on a standard speed game and by the time my worker was built, I had already researched every tech in Ancient Era. Still one city and one warrior

If I want to found a religion myself as fast as possible, my build order is the following: warrior, shrine, warrior, warrior/archer, monument, warrior/archer/tireme, library and so on.

I usually purchase my worker with gold, which I get from selling the embassy rights to all the other civs. I get my first (and usually only) settler from the liberation tree. I play on king-deity difficulties, so I usually don't have big chances to get any early wonders built as doing so usually gets me tangled in a war against some warmongering civ.

Warrior > Shrine > Settler > Worker (If tradition)/Monument (If Liberty)

Honestly I hate the Scout. I really wish he was upgradable through the eras to at least be able to move further and take more dmg. Otherwise by the Renaissance or sooner he ends up getting deleted due to not being worth the maintenance cost.

Khadroth said:

Honestly I hate the Scout. I really wish he was upgradable through the eras to at least be able to move further and take more dmg. Otherwise by the Renaissance or sooner he ends up getting deleted due to not being worth the maintenance cost.

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Yep, in marathon games he's quite useful even without an upgrade line (pairs of scouts are excellent at clearing barbs - especially with Survivalism III!)

I added a scout line through Atomic era (ends in the same column as marine/paratrooper). Makes them quite feasable for their job - scouting/delaying the enemy/picking off wounded units or unescorted workers/settlers/GPs - if still useless vs frontline units.

I usually go scout - monument until pottery - shrine - finish off monument - settler/worker - settler/worker - stonehenge - with Tradition. I am very prone to an early DOW with this strategy but I always manage to survive.

Heres my general openers depending on situation of local resources, expansion space and nearest enemy and which Civ I'm playing.

Scout > Worker/Monument (depends if I have improvement techs up and running for luxuries etc., if I do its worker > Monument if not Monument >Worker) > Shrine/prebuild a wonder (normally Pyramids) until Pottery is ready (this sometimes happens on some Civs with early UUs that I want or if I'm getting techs like masonry and trapping to work luxuries).

After this it will depend on whether I'm going liberty or tradition and this will depend on space available or if I'm going culture.

If I'm going Liberty I beeline to my free settler therefore ignore building one and build an archer (if I can) to help deal with barbs, then a Wonder (I finish of the one I started earlier or if I didn't start one I try and grab GL or if thats gone something else like StoneH). Then when wonder's done I use the cheaper build time for Settlers to alternate produce Archer/Settler to expand to the good locations occasionally putting in another wonder or building if I need. Any cash I get I normally save for rushed walls if I get Warrior rushed by the AI or if I feel safe on Water mills/Aqueducts.

If I can't find many good locations to expand or I'm hemmed in by other civs or I'm going cultural I'll go Tradition (love that legalism no longer means you waste your free culture building if you built a monument) and then focus on Wonders and Growth buildings like Granary/Mills/Aqueducts and buy Settlers so I don't waste growth time.


On new cities I build with either way I've started it will be something like this

(Walls - if really near neighbour thats gonna get piss at my expansion and DOW) > Monument > Shrine > growth/science buildings mixed in with a few defenders.


Things sometimes get changed up like if I'm Huns or other early rusher I'll build more units sacrificing some of the growth buildings till later on but in general thats pretty much my start but its very dependent on what the variable are.

After that is just focusing on my Victory condition.

So to answer the question when to I build shrines? Usually pretty early! I like grabbing early religion, Just pisses me off though when Pacal spawns right next to me and enhances his religion before I barely get one myself so my religion gets squashed before it even starts.

In my most recent game, i took some advice an built henge instead of Shrines. I learned that 1 henge = 8 shrines + no maint. I always knew this, but didn't realize that shrines are purely choice.

You can also settle Mt. Sinai or one of the other faith NW's to get the good effect. You probably won't get premium choice every time but youll get some good things for it. From now on, im not going to build shrines. Just like monument, the maintenance is just a punishment.

(In order to have less weak policies now and more better ones later, i like to push out a settler ASAP and ignore shrines to stall out my policy growth. Once, i got my second city down before my first policy choice, which allowed me to stagnate a second one until commerce! (i played down 5 cities just to avoid the growth)

This is slightly off topic, but I want to start a game where The Celts are settled next to 3 forests and have a couple stone and maybe a marble in range so I could pick Stone Circles. That would rock!

Monument - Shrine - Archer - Scout - Worker - Settler, usually.

thadian said:

In my most recent game, i took some advice an built henge instead of Shrines. I learned that 1 henge = 8 shrines + no maint. I always knew this, but didn't realize that shrines are purely choice.

You can also settle Mt. Sinai or one of the other faith NW's to get the good effect. You probably won't get premium choice every time but youll get some good things for it. From now on, im not going to build shrines. Just like monument, the maintenance is just a punishment.

(In order to have less weak policies now and more better ones later, i like to push out a settler ASAP and ignore shrines to stall out my policy growth. Once, i got my second city down before my first policy choice, which allowed me to stagnate a second one until commerce! (i played down 5 cities just to avoid the growth)

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Qucik question, My SH gives me + 5 faith my shrines give + 1 , where do you get 8 shrines no maintence?