Anyone have a really OP map for a Deity CV?

Preferably not one that relies on the civ being Spain. I'd prefer Brazil, France or Sweden.

Lots of food and production in 4 city locations is a must.

Thanks.

consentient said:

Preferably not one that relies on the civ being Spain. I'd prefer Brazil, France or Sweden.

Lots of food and production in 4 city locations is a must.

Thanks.

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I had a really good France one, with Paris surrounded by wine, but I must have deleted it when I was freeing up memory. It might be on my external hard drive, so I'll take a look.

@OP, I understand a preference to avoid Spain. And Brazil or France make sense for CV. But why Sweden on your short preferred list for CV?

beetle said:

@OP, I understand a preference to avoid Spain. And Brazil or France make sense for CV. But why Sweden on your short preferred list for CV?

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Sweden are crazy OP for a CV, reliant on reasonable starting terrain and on making 3 or more DoF before T50 (happens a lot to mewhen I don't go smashing the map up DomV style). Tundra isn't always bad - you have a shot at DoA and if you have lots of camps and forests, it's not bad at all. If the terrain IS sub-par, you can go Honor and barb hunt in the northern wastes.

Try them for yourself. They're by far my favourite civ, since they are great with Honor DomV, Liberty DomV, Liberty DiploV and Tradition CV games.

why not try siam?

consentient said:

Sweden are crazy OP for a CV, reliant on reasonable starting terrain and on making 3 or more DoF before T50 (happens a lot to mewhen I don't go smashing the map up DomV style).

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What give you 3DOF before 50T since you don't have by this time any GP generation anyway?

50 -60% more GP generation later on appropriate mape is nice not only for CV but because of lack of tourism bonuses Sweden for CV can't even match with Brazil or France.

consentient said:

Try them for yourself. They're by far my favourite civ, since they are great with Honor DomV, Liberty DomV, Liberty DiploV and Tradition CV games.

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I like Sweden. They were my pick for my very recent first try at Deity, and got me a DiploV. I think that game could easily have been spun to an SV. I think Sweden would be fine for Dom if I were any good at that. I just don’t see what particular synergy Sweden offers for CV, and you have not said...

I take it then, that Sweden makes your short list just because you like them generally? For peaceful CV, which I am quite terrible at, after France and Brazil I think I would pick Poland and then one of the few that get tourisms from UBs.

Ironfighter, I am positive that Brazil are better, but on Deity France are quite meh because unless you're lucky, the wonders you need to put in the capital are gone before you can get them. Only the top 5% of players can consistently get Uffizi, Louvre and Eiffel Tower, and if you're the top 5%, then you can win easily anyway, as Maddjinn showed with India.

But Sweden, when I played with them, gave an absurd amount of GP. I say get the DoFs early because it you don't get them until later, they're shakier by far, that's all.

Sweden are definitely 2nd to Brazil, but I've played a lot of CVs with Sweden and a lot with other contenders, such as Siam, who were mentioned, and they are much better.

Anyway, I'm looking for a great map so if anyone has one...

I had a map in which I picked Sweden and I was alone on my continent. It wasn't a particularly rich map but with no neighbors to pester you, you could easily grow to your heart's content. Until you max out your happiness but ocean sailing is still far away in the tech tree

consentient said:

Ironfighter, I am positive that Brazil are better, but on Deity France are quite meh because unless you're lucky, the wonders you need to put in the capital are gone before you can get them.

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Well France tourism is based more on chateaus and they are 100% avaiable, besides at least you have safe tourism from national wonders (OU, Hermitage,museum) but really you should get at least few wonders in cap

What have Sweden regarding tourism...umhhh...nothing

consentient said:

But Sweden, when I played with them, gave an absurd amount of GP.

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In earlier post I mention 50-60% more GP generation but it's only if you hand picked friendly opponents in normal game you rarely get more then 2-3 constant DOF, what means same bonus as garden, in best case with LToP - hardly game breaking. In fact even 50% more GP generation means 1-2 more GP each type unless your games lasts over 300 turns but then...well...

I think you just like Sweden because you had some good games but that really doesn't means it's second for culture.

Of course you can prove I'm wrong by showing some good Swedish CV.

consentient said:

Only the top 5% of players can consistently get Uffizi, Louvre and Eiffel Tower, and if you're the top 5%, then you can win easily anyway, as Maddjinn showed with India.

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Broadway is pretty easy to get, and worth x2 for France because of the 3x theming bonus. That plus Oxford and Hermitage in cap seems pretty good.

But Sweden, when I played with them, gave an absurd amount of GP.

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You get a few from CS from closing out patronage, then DoFs get you you maybe +25% GP points more than normal, but GP costs increases geometrically, so really not too many more.

GA, GM, GW are all nice, but even two of each really will not make or break a CV. So I am still not understanding them as particularly strong for CV.

Everyone keeps saying: not too many more GP, but I challenge you to actually go ahead and play them and see how many more you get. I got loads of them!

Absolutely Sweden gets significantly more GP. It is fun! If they were all late game GM, that could pocket your CV, but that is not how it works. So how do you spin half again as many GP -- but spread out -- into a CV?

Sweden is my favorite Civ too basically they are are flexible and can handle most starts, not OP not UP but basically an average with flexible benefits.

consentient said:

Only the top 5% of players can consistently get Uffizi, Louvre and Eiffel Tower, and if you're the top 5%, then you can win easily anyway, as Maddjinn showed with India.

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You list 3 wonders with wildly different degrees of availability, though. Eiffel Tower is pretty much guaranteed if you Oxford Radio (because the AI's never do that), and by the end of the Renaissance, you should be the tech lead anyway. The Louvre is also not that difficult because it requires Exploration, which AI's usually don't pick, and if they do, it happens pretty late in the game. Really, only Portugal would go for the Louvre, and maybe a couple others. Uffizi, on the other hand, is nearly impossible to get due to several factors. First, the AI's luuuuuv Aesthetics, so expect 3-6 of them be ready to jump on that Uffizi the moment it becomes available. Half of them also enter the Renaissance via Acoustics. Secondly, when you enter the Renaissance, you generally want to open Rationalism-Secularism (unless you play Rationalism-free like me ), so by the time you get to Architecture, you might not have opened Aesthetics (unless you opened it way before). the Uffizi is most difficult to get ut of those, and, oddly enough, the most efficient way to get it is to head to Printing Press, build Pisa, and meanwhile research towards Architecture, open Aesthetics, and use a GE from Pisa to rush the Uffizi. If the AI's have built Uffizi, then you can save the GE, and in case they haven't, you will most likely get it without wasting too much time. Of course, it wouldn't work if the AI's nabbed Pisa, but it is generally the easiest Renaissance wonder from my experience because the AI's go for Acoustics or Gunpowder 90% of the time.

The point I was making is that France are fantastic on Immortal and below where you can get almost any wonder you like (maybe not the Ancient and Classical ones on Immortal) but on Deity their UA is rendered almost a damp squib because you won't put enough World Wonders with theme bonuses in there.

I have totally different experience to the best players on the availability of the World Wonders, since I'm not in the top 5% of players. And my point is, that if you're good enough where these wonders are so available, then you don't need France to win and its UA is just overkill.

So their UA is not really making much difference to anyone. Not-so-great players can't use it, and fab players don't need to.

With Sweden, all players have huge bonuses. The better you are, the better the bonuses even.

consentient said:

The point I was making is that France are fantastic on Immortal and below where you can get almost any wonder you like (maybe not the Ancient and Classical ones on Immortal) but on Deity their UA is rendered almost a damp squib because you won't put enough World Wonders with theme bonuses in there.

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It really depends on how the AI's perform and who is in game. Sometimes, the AI's don't do much, and sometimes, they run away like crazy. And Attila, for example, is not going to build the Uffizi, ever.

Last summer, somebody posted a Deity map with Spain where you could walk south for 5 turns and settle on the Great Barrier Reef. In that game, I got the GL on t28 and NC on t37. It was pretty over from there. But you said you don't want Spain, so...

Yeah I played that map. Spain have the potential to be in a tier of their own due to how broken the UA can be under certain conditions. But I want to try and see what the lowest-turn non-Spain CV I can get it. The folks who think they can get it under 200 have their work cut out. I just want one under T220-230.

consentient said:

Yeah I played that map. Spain have the potential to be in a tier of their own due to how broken the UA can be under certain conditions. But I want to try and see what the lowest-turn non-Spain CV I can get it. The folks who think they can get it under 200 have their work cut out. I just want one under T220-230.

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France might be able to do that in 220 or 230 but it would involve lots of conquest. And I would finish it with the Eiffel Tower or perhaps a Hotel.

consentient said:

Yeah I played that map. Spain have the potential to be in a tier of their own due to how broken the UA can be under certain conditions. But I want to try and see what the lowest-turn non-Spain CV I can get it. The folks who think they can get it under 200 have their work cut out. I just want one under T220-230.

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Acken did a t212 CV with Theodora map from DCL #6. Byzantium is considered trash-tier for Deity, but that map had FoY, and Acken was lucky enough to get Petra. It was before the Tradition nerf, though.

Faster win times only depend on bee-lining, timing Rationalism with Renassaince, and rush-buying science buildings to get to the Internet. If anything, it's a science race.