testing - 2x/3x cost of the units

Sparth · Mar 11, 2015

As I say in bug thread I created two files with new cost of the units in :hammers:

First one is with :hammers:

cost multipled by 2

Second one with :hammers:

cost multipled by 3

Third one with :hammers:

cost multipled by 10

How to install? Simple download and unpack to your caveman2cosmos directory.

I want to test this new costs and see if there is good way to reduce huge amount of units in-game which is problematic in current state of the mod. Any help with test will be great (my time for playing is limited last time

Nimek · Mar 11, 2015

I will prefer

Land units x2

Water units x4

Now it is very easy to build even 5 triremes per turn.
In reality navy was always very expensive for example a lot of nations don't have carriers because it is too expensive.

Sparth · Mar 11, 2015

Nimek said:
I will prefer

Land units x2

Water units x4

Now it is very easy to build even 5 triremes per turn.
In reality navy was always very expensive for example a lot of nations don't have carriers because it is too expensive.

I like this idea. Ill implement this in next version of these 2 files.

Faustmouse · Mar 11, 2015

I like the idea :goodjob:

But maybe we need a smoother start (lower multiplier) for the very early game as it isn't fun at all if you need ages for your first unit and then it is killed 5 turns later.

ssmage · May 17, 2015

I seems that a new svn change has obseleted these, can we get a new one?

Sparth · May 18, 2015

ssmage said:
I seems that a new svn change has obseleted these, can we get a new one?

I think ill prepare new file with cost x10. After few test I can say that x2 or x3 are not enought.

JosEPh_II · May 18, 2015

Sparth said:
I think ill prepare new file with cost x10. After few test I can say that x2 or x3 are not enought.

@Sparth,

Is this for your Modmod? Or are you doing this to the Main mod?

If you are attempting to do this for the main Remember that Alberts2 has revert the maint costs and commerce/gold to version 34 system. Blue Genies has been removed. And units do not need their costs increased 10 fold (times). The balance right now is fine. If you make it more costly then you will never be able to take a guarded city thru Preh and Ancient Eras. You just won't be able to field a good and big enough army to do so. It's a real balancing act as it is right now. Trying to keep the army supplied with new units and maintain a 0 to small + :gold:

/turn is demanding as it is.

You started this thread under BG's system which has been proven to be flawed. That is why alberts2 did the reversion.

So if this is for your Modmod then by all means go for it. But if this is for the Main Mod then I have to protest.

JosEPh

Rwn · May 18, 2015

I also find the :hammers:

cost for units fine as it is (though I wouldn't mind if the cost for naval units was indeed significantly increased).

I'd rather increase their maintenance cost

gold

if the goal is to avoid huge stacks of units. I'm not even sure the extra maintenance costs that are already defined are indeed working...

JosEPh_II · May 18, 2015

Rwn said:
I also find the cost for units fine as it is (though I wouldn't mind if the cost for naval units was indeed significantly increased).

I'd rather increase their maintenance cost gold if the goal is to avoid huge stacks of units. I'm not even sure the extra maintenance costs that are already defined are indeed working...

Maint. cost for units are fine. If they become increased even more you will not be able to sustain a war. It's taking a ratio of nearly 5 attackers to every defender in a "walled" city to take that city right now. I've been in a protracted war with Pacal and I'm burning thru stacks of 8-10 attackers to get the defenders inside the city reduced by 1 or 2 units. After of course I've spent 4-10 rams breaking down his walls to be able to get to the defenders.

IMP and HO Nothing needs to be changed right now with 1 exception, the Rams need a button for doing "bombard" damage against walls vs outright attacking units inside the walls. Hard to differentiate what you are really doing sometime with a Ram unit. (And the promos are confusing as H E Dbl Hockey sticks!)

JosEPh

Sparth · May 18, 2015

It will be modmod but I strongly recomend to use it.

For my play experience and testing different saves in bug thread there is problem with overproduction of units. AI build tons and tons of units and stack them (stacks with more then 100 or even 200 units are common). I know that final solution of this problem should be by fixing AI but for now its not possible to do (lack of knowledge and skills in our team).

Plus from player perspective tons of units its useless micromanagment. Also more units = longer turn times and chances for MAF.

Generaly I would like to see less units but more powerful then now. And maybe cities defense bonus should be trimmed down too.

Rwn · May 18, 2015

Sparth said:
It will be modmod but I strongly recomend to use it.

For my play experience and testing different saves in bug thread there is problem with overproduction of units. AI build tons and tons of units and stack them (stacks with more then 100 or even 200 units are common). I know that final solution of this problem should be by fixing AI but for now its not possible to do (lack of knowledge and skills in our team).

Plus from player perspective tons of units its useless micromanagment. Also more units = longer turn times and chances for MAF.

Generaly I would like to see less units but more powerful then now. And maybe cities defense bonus should be trimmed down too.

Are you playing with SizeMatters?

Again I'd advise to put/increase a :gold:

penalty on units (on specific units and/or on total number of units on the map) rather than increase :hammers:

cost - if the problem is that the AI invests too much in units (vs. buildings), I assume it will continue to do so with an increased :hammers:

cost, it'll just lead to less units on the field (and I'm wondering whether that won't encourage the AI to build even more units to compensate?).

Sparth · May 18, 2015

Rwn said:
Are you playing with SizeMatters?

Yes, I played with them and without.

Noriad2 · May 18, 2015

The most sensitive area in this regard is the log ram/battering ram era when cities with walls have huge defense bonuses. In that era, rams are basically throwaway units and you need to suicide a large number of them into a city before you are even allowed to attack with other units. Worse case scenario: enemy city has 180 defense bonus with several strong defense units, you suicide a large stack of rams into it until the defenses are down to 65. Then you try to attack with your main army, but can't because "defenses must be lowered to 60" before you are allowed to attack. Then retreat your remaining army in failure and build new rams while the defense bonus of the enemy city ticks up again.

Faustmouse · May 18, 2015

How about we increase the cost for later units stronger? I've seen huge stacks of Riflemen, mostly because you can easily pump out several of them per turn cause units are too cheap compared to buildings. It's not a problem in the early game.

Sparth · May 18, 2015

Faustmouse said:
How about we increase the cost for later units stronger? I've seen huge stacks of Riflemen, mostly because you can easily pump out several of them per turn cause units are too cheap compared to buildings. It's not a problem in the early game.

Its the solution for sure. Also mid-late game overproduction of units is created by huge bonus to unit production from buildings and civics.

Dancing Hoskuld · May 18, 2015

Don't forget that costs for maintaining units increase as soon as you leave your or friendly territory and enter neutral of enemy territory. Or at least it did.

Toffer90 · May 18, 2015

Dancing Hoskuld said:
Don't forget that costs for maintaining units increase as soon as you leave your or friendly territory and enter neutral of enemy territory. Or at least it did.

Still does and is called unit supply cost in the economic advisor.

Dancing Hoskuld · May 18, 2015

Nimek said:
Now it is very easy to build even 5 triremes per turn.

Given that a turn is 100 years or more at that point of the game I have no problem with this. Even if the turn is 20 years there is no problem IMO.

JosEPh_II · May 18, 2015

Dancing Hoskuld said:
Given that a turn is 100 years or more at that point of the game I have no problem with this. Even if the turn is 20 years there is no problem IMO.

100% agree!

JosEPh

Sparth · May 19, 2015

Dancing Hoskuld said:
Given that a turn is 100 years or more at that point of the game I have no problem with this. Even if the turn is 20 years there is no problem IMO.

Do you belive that Trireme unit its just one ship and for example Rifleman unit its 3 guys with guns?

testing - 2x/3x cost of the units

C2C Team Member

Emperor

C2C Team Member

Deity

Warlord

C2C Team Member

TBS WarLord

King

TBS WarLord

C2C Team Member

King

C2C Team Member

Emperor

Deity

C2C Team Member

Deity

C2C Modder

Deity

TBS WarLord

C2C Team Member

Similar threads