Worst Civ in the Game??

Is Longhouse really that bad compared to a Workshop? I haven't done the maths, but surely rolling a forest heavy start would mean a plethora of mid-game hammers that just increase as you upgrade.

Other than that, Venice is fun to play when you have all that gold, and India makes super tall super fun :)

Yes, losing a percent modifier to your overall production is a huge detriment. 1 extra hammer per forest rarely if ever makes up for it. Percent modifiers which build off your total hammers are extremely strong late in the game when you have 80 - 100+ hammers.
 
Worst civ in the game versus least favorite to play are very different questions ;)

I.e. I've only played Babylon once, and found them sort of generic and boring to play, but they are undoubtedly one of the strongest civs to play.

Versus I've been on a Polynesia kick recently, but no one would argue that they are particularly strong (though they wouldn't qualify as worst).
 
Rome, Rome, and Rome. In that exact order.

I agree because every other civ~ even America brings something to the table that you can alter your playstyle around. Romes 25% production bonus is bland and for a lot of the VCs its bad!

You can't build a courthouse in your capital so you don't get bonus build time on those which is ironic considering Romes history and while yes you can build happiness buildings a smidgen faster every additional city you add to the empire already needs to have decent production values for you to benefit from the UA which usually is not going to happen until mid to late game and Romes UU are early eras which completely misses the point.

On Emperor/Diety setting taking cities can be quite lucrative and it is one of the few difficulty settings where Rome shines exceptionally well because early warfare is more viable given that most the cities you capture will be good (a shrine, monument and granary at minimum will be in each captured city) but outside of that, Rome is just not very exciting at all.
 
Worst civ in the game versus least favorite to play are very different questions ;)

I.e. I've only played Babylon once, and found them sort of generic and boring to play, but they are undoubtedly one of the strongest civs to play.

Versus I've been on a Polynesia kick recently, but no one would argue that they are particularly strong (though they wouldn't qualify as worst).

What would you suggest I title the thread? I have seen both comments on posts. Some comment the worst compared to the least fav. I guess I could change the title to Worst Civ/Least Fav for Deity.

Edit: The new title has been changed to Your Opinion of the Worst or Least Fav Civ to play on Deity! I hope this clears up any confusion.
 
Cant see how Americans can be ignore when it comes to worst civ...

buying tiles for half price... really? you will save at least 250 gold wtih this one in the game!!!!

millitary unit +1sight... great for scouting maybe, but ultimately, you Might get an extra ruin per game... lets hope its not surronding area!!!

UU musketman... well ok... move faster in forest wow

UU B17.. great unit indeed... but come so late you already won or loose game...

really they suck!
american scouting is probably third best in the game, you'll pick up 3-4 more ruins in a typical game, +1 sight helps with units not getting sniped and helps with siege weapon targeting, manifest destiny land purchasing isn't great but you will save a significant amount early on that means more early game gold for a worker or settler.

All this is better than a civ that has a worse UB than what it replaces.
 
american scouting is probably third best in the game, you'll pick up 3-4 more ruins in a typical game, +1 sight helps with units not getting sniped and helps with siege weapon targeting, manifest destiny land purchasing isn't great but you will save a significant amount early on that means more early game gold for a worker or settler.

All this is better than a civ that has a worse UB than what it replaces.

haha
well yeah
Iroquoi really suck indeed...
lets say bottom 5 for sure in my book.... that said I might be wrong...
its just that it made me laugh when I saw UU being freakin bomber!
 
I have setteled on Immortal-level and rather play "bad" civs then good. My favorite play includes early war and I like rome for their UU:s and love Denmark for UA and Berzerkers. Some of the strong civs is boring to me. Babylon is nice for their bowmen though.




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Funny thing is, i always win my first games on a 'new' difficulty with one of the worser Civ's. My first game on Emperor was with Iroquois and it was great fun, the same on Immortal with Denmark.

Also i really like Venice, they could make it more interesting but the concept is alright. I never played 'older' Civ games, was there a similar Civ with only one real City? There should be definitely something similar in the next game of the series again.
 
I'm somewhat surprised about the dislike for Gandhi. his UA is DEFINITELY not trash... in fact under quite a few circumstances I'd rate it as one of the best in the game. He is absolutely amazing going wide. Keep in mind that even on Deity, a city past size 6 or so is going to make up for the extra unhappiness from number of cities with the happiness you save by the UA. There have been amazing games for me before where I was playing as someone like Poland or Egypt or any of the stronger civs, and barely managed 7 cities. With Gandhi, I have a game where I have founded 16 cities and it's barely the Modern era, and I'm at well over half a hundren happiness.

Eh, that's off-topic a bit though. I like playing as Gandhi. What I don't like... I guess I'd say Denmark. I'm just not that agressive a player, and when I am, I strongly favour ranged and naval encounters. My playstyle is to grab a LOT of wonders, spam culture and cultural policies (not even towards an end, I honestly just like having a bunch of bonuses.) Denmark just does absolutely nothing for me. Same with Genghis for the same reasons.

I also don't get much enjoyment out of the Iroquois. I don't know why, I just feel really clumsy when I play as them.
 
The only reason I think why they added them to the game was to 'fill up the gap' considering North Americain civs; but to be honest they seem utterly useless in the game. Also devellopers didnt help the iroquois improve considering that have a bad UA and a UU that hardly lasts
 
Yes, losing a percent modifier to your overall production is a huge detriment. 1 extra hammer per forest rarely if ever makes up for it. Percent modifiers which build off your total hammers are extremely strong late in the game when you have 80 - 100+ hammers.

Depending on the situation, the Longhouse could still actually be better in production, and even more so when stacked with other percentage bonuses to production, such as railroads, factories or golden ages. Also, it goes without saying, the more forest tiles, the better.

Say for example, if there's a city with 3 forest tiles and 25 more production from other sources, turning all of them into lumber mills will yield a total of 34.1 production, which already includes the workshop bonus. A longhouse instead would yield 34 production, barely only losing to the workshop. However, when adding the 20% bonus from golden ages, the workshop provides only 40.3 production, while the longhouse provides 40.8 production, which surprisingly makes it better, if slightly.

There is a catch, though. It only works if you compare it with cities with lumber mills. If all three forest tiles could be converted into hill mines, then the workshop is obviously better in terms of production. Suddenly, the workshop provides 37.4 production and 44.2 production with the golden age, a far cry from the longhouse. Let's not even go to the Order tenets.

However, again, it also loses three food, meaning suddenly, the longhouse is better in another aspect. If the city has a population of 10, gaining 5 excess food (not accounting the forests/mines), has no aqueducts yet, and is growing on standard speed (growth rate is 0/114), it means the workshop city replacing the forest tiles with mines will grow in 23 turns, whereas the longhouse provides 3 additional food (excess of 8 food) from forest tiles thus will grow in only 15 turns. The situation is suddenly comparable to the Incas where they can forego production in exchange for more food generated by terrace farms.

The underlying problem now becomes this. It's not because the longhouse loses its 10% bonus that makes it bad. It's because the longhouse forces the Iroquois to settle on areas with forests, preferrably a lot of them. I have a Petra city in my current game which, while makes it great in terms of production and food and even has access to 5 forest tiles, is still flat out worse if compared to the same city built by another civ. The longhouse has no redeeming qualities when it comes to land that isn't dominated by forest tiles, and this specialization is what makes it crippling to the Iroquois. At least the Incas have no problems working on flatlands as they can be played out like any other civs. The Iroquois, not so much.
 
Well I think it's fairly obvious that unless your cities have at least 3-4 forests around them, then the Longhouse indeed is a downgrade, but I kind of knew that already, I was only interested in the maths side of things innit
 
Well I think it's fairly obvious that unless your cities have at least 3-4 forests around them, then the Longhouse indeed is a downgrade, but I kind of knew that already, I was only interested in the maths side of things innit

As time passes by, 3-4 forests may not even be enough. I find 6 to be a safer number. Even then, I'm not so sure about late game when ideologies come into play, specifically Order which has a couple of tenets that provide flat bonuses to production.
 
Worst civ: Iroquois. They're the only civ that makes me wish I played a civ without unique attributes instead. The UA is okay but quite glitchy and requires you to build roads anyways to reach its maximum potential. Mohawks don't really get any game changing bonuses, and the Longhouse is straight up worse than the Workshop unless you have nothing but Forest in the city.

Least favorite civ: Huns. I just don't like the "takes city names" thing. It's so lazy. That and the ugly colour makes me not want to look at them. Other than that they're really good and fun.
 
Oh man, Ottomans and Iroquois are my two favorite civs! With the Ottomans, you spend the early game building a navy and crashing it against the strongest coastal cities you find, then pivot to get to janissary as fast as you can. They are the best UU in the game imho! The time you save by not having to wait for them to heal is powerful. Once you unlock sipahi it's just icing on the cake.

As for the Iroquois, although the longhouse seems like a downgrade, I generally only settle two cities in the thickest (hopefully connected) woods possible, where they are very effective early on. Then I crank out mohawks and rampage. I almost never un-puppet the capitals and raze everything else. Will you lag in science? Yah, but so what? By the time it really matters you've knocked out have the field, and you have the gold to upgrade your already awesome military to longswordman and continue the bloodshed. :devil: :run: Before I starting visiting this site, I always considered the Iroquois OP!
 
Well, Shoshone is obviously #1. Which civ(s) are you thinking for the number 2 spot?

Polynesia can dip into water immediately with +1 sight and can snag a worker and dip worker into the water on the next turn while the scout can move one space away from city and dip into the water to avoid being killed.
 
France, Greece, Austria, Byzantine, Rome, Persia, China... I think I hate too many civs lol.
 
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