How many of you 'cheat' when playing single-player?

Socratatus · Jan 24, 2015

krc said:
Here's the first definition of the transitive verb "to cheat" from Merriam-Webster:to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud.

You can certainly fool yourself. If you reroll starts until you get a good one and you reload save games when you miss a wonder by one turn but you still tell yourself that you win those games because you are such a great player, then you are (as you say) lying to yourself. But you are not cheating yourself. There is no deceit; it's not as though you didn't watch yourself do those things. There is no fraud; there is no cover-up.

And it's not clear to me if rerolling bad starts is any different from playing with "legendary start" resources. Or only playing the Inca on a highland map, or Indonesia on archipelago or small islands. None of which (I think) counts as cheating, since they are designed into the game as options you can choose.

It's also not really clear if playing a computer game for fun and doing any of the things listed in the poll that started this thread can ever "deprive (yourself) of something valuable". Oh look, I just deprived myself of the opportunity to play Carthage in a starting position on a northern ocean with access to the rest of the world blocked on both sides by ice. Without a river or a hill or a mountain anywhere near the coast. And one whale and one truffle as the only luxury resources in sight. What a valuable opportunity I have wasted!

I don`t need a definition created by some guy. I know from experience and life that one can cheat himself in all things. From the small to the large, from the important to not so important. Even in games.

Also, it never ever fails, that whenever I say one can cheat himself in games there`s always someone who comes along and must dispute the point Then they post some pseudo-study that suits their denial. This makes my point exactly and it never fails.

Most of all, I`m not saying you`re a bad person for `cheating` yourself in a game, play it your way. I just don`t do those things since I feel I learn from it.

Acken · Jan 24, 2015

qemist said:
What's pillage heal?

You heal when you pillage but you can also repair enemy improvements for a reason. So you can pillage + repair over and over again. Citizenship + Pyramids even make it a 1 turn repair.

Don't consider it an exploit myself. An abuse maybe but no bug involved. The devs allowed you to repair enemy tiles. As much as stupid that is my conscience is fine, like worker steal: could have been removed by the devs since 2010.

Lexicus · Jan 24, 2015

krc said:
I occasionally turn off barbarians because I find them annoying(NOT challenging).

Weird, I always play with raging barbarians checked because otherwise the early game is hopelessly boring. I wish there was an option to make barbarians even more common.

Thirsty_Scholar · Jan 24, 2015

1 occasionally (hopeless starts), and 4 rarely. A quick game of American Domination or the Cthulhu civ is fun every now and again.

tpac · Jan 25, 2015

krc said:
I believe that in order to "cheat", there has to be a victim. And I don't think you can cheat yourself. I play Civ for fun, and it is sometimes no fun to slog through a start with no resources and little production and an aggressive neighbor. So I throw away a lot of bad starts.

Well, yes I put 'cheat' in quotes for that reason - it's your game, you can play it how you want. I mean the developers literally put a 'reroll' button in the menu.

However for the poll. I was more or less considering 'cheating' things the AI doesn't have the 'opportunity' to do - i.e. the AI can't reroll a start it doesn't like.

I've seen so many remarks about the AI 'cheating' (though technically I'd say the AI has 'handicaps' more than 'cheats'), I'm curious how many people 'cheat' versus the AI. Practically speaking, it would be interesting to compare the 'cheats' to level played (i.e. to see if the more the Ai 'cheats', the more the players 'cheat'), but that's beyond the scope of this poll.

stormtrooper412 · Jan 25, 2015

Only reloading I guess. But I use the save/load feature in pretty much any game I ever played, so, is that also cheating?

BruinBound · Jan 25, 2015

I actually like bad starts, adds more interest to the game. Same reason I like getting bad CIVs.

But I'm still a cheater because I like the extra analytics from InfoAddict :sad:

Enginseer · Jan 26, 2015

I'll use IGE to add/change things in my favor.

I prefer to play deity with 15 Alexanders attempting to contest 10 city-states on a huge Pangaea marathon with City-State Diplomacy mod. I then, put myself in a corner and put enhanced vision scouts to watch how the Alexanders deal with themselves.

Walter R · Jan 26, 2015

I clicked '1'.

I play as England a lot but find the water maps are too OP so I tend to play continents or Terra; but if I realise after a few turns scouting that the 'sea' that London is founded against is actually a lake then it's start again time.

Other than that I tend to play what I get, even those mega jungles (that England is famous for!)

mrmike1949 · Jan 26, 2015

DoctorMcGann said:
I think that refers to pillaging, repairing, then pillaging again.

didn't even know that was possible, do heal by pillaging, that is not cheating. SO subtract one vote from that "exploit"

veterangrognard · Feb 2, 2015

I routinely save a game before a DOW. I also save before trying some strategic campaign so that I can compare it to another way.

It is a game for my enjoyment. If I am not having fun, why am I spending the time?

The current map (a Middle Earth map with resources added) is full of barbarians. I am developing better early game skills.

beetle · Feb 3, 2015

Since the AIs do not ever seem to pillage-heal-repair is any use of that an exploit? Or it only an expoit if I bring worker with me to front line?

Is early capture of CS workers an exploit?

How about the fact that the player moves one hex at time? Is that an exploit?

tribefaninnc · Feb 3, 2015

I answered 2). I often save prior to a big decision point, like before I know I'm going to pick up major warmongering. Just in case of unintended consequences. I don't usually go back, but could and would if needed.

I have re rolled, but typically don't. I don't use it to cheat though, just to find something that interests me.

I try not to "abuse" (for lack of better term) the AI too much. Games just become too easy if your subvert the intentions of the game. I have started stealing CS workers, that's probably the worst thing I do.

vorlon_mi · Feb 3, 2015

Civ is a game of big decisions, so I have tried to discipline myself to live with -- or work around -- my bad decisions. I will often save the game just before starting a big war, or just after completing a long and involved war. The first case is insurance against mis-clicks or the game suddenly crashing (my graphics driver is just a little flaky). The second case is to preserve my hard-earned gains in case of an error later.
However, I've found myself lately in situations where I start a war against an AI where it has a much stronger force than I anticipated. Rather than lose a bunch of units in a long slog to defeat it, I will stop and reload an earlier save, and make a different decision. Real life has limited the amount of time I have for Civ, and I want to enjoy the game while I am playing it. I'm never going to submit any games, and I don't play multi-player.

For re-rolling, I have simply abandoned starts that looked un-fun. Sometimes that happened on the first turn, and sometimes it happened on turn 10 or 15. Just exit to the main menu, and toss the files into the Recycle Bin. Start a new game; there's no little person sitting on my shoulder, who makes me finish every game that I start.

rastak · Feb 3, 2015

stormtrooper412 said:
Only reloading I guess. But I use the save/load feature in pretty much any game I ever played, so, is that also cheating?

Not at all, but what exactly is the point in playing if nothing bad can happen because you reload?

beetle · Feb 3, 2015

vorlon_mi said:
Civ is a game of big decisions

I agree with this.

so I have tried to discipline myself to live with -- or work around -- my bad decisions.

It is too easy, for example, not to spot an enemy unit near an unescorted settler or GG (even though you have units nearby). For me, paying that close attention makes the game more work than play.

However, I've found myself lately in situations where I start a war against an AI where it has a much stronger force than I anticipated. Rather than lose a bunch of units in a long slog to defeat it, I will stop and reload an earlier save, and make a different decision. Real life has limited the amount of time I have for Civ, and I want to enjoy the game while I am playing it. I'm never going to submit any games, and I don't play multi-player.

Okay, so you and I agree about this.

rastak said:
Not at all, but what exactly is the point in playing if nothing bad can happen because you reload?

Even with reloading, plenty bad things happen! Reloading is tedious too, but I dont think I would want it much easier. As it is, I am rarely tempted to reload just because one battle goes poorly. IMHO, it is not worth the bother of gaming the RNG, because that feels like work too.

ThorHammerz · Feb 4, 2015

Walter R said:
I clicked '1'.

I play as England a lot but find the water maps are too OP so I tend to play continents or Terra; but if I realise after a few turns scouting that the 'sea' that London is founded against is actually a lake then it's start again time.

Other than that I tend to play what I get, even those mega jungles (that England is famous for!)

I do this every time, with any/every Civ :cry:

....

Unless of course, there's a fairly easy Panama/Suez canal opportunity or I'm playing with a naval-passable forts mod :lol:

Anunnaki · Feb 4, 2015

I re-load if Shaka is a very close neighbour.

stormtrooper412 · Feb 6, 2015

rastak said:
Not at all, but what exactly is the point in playing if nothing bad can happen because you reload?

Because I don't know jack about ZoC and I mess up unit movement getting half my invading army killed

Sedwick · Feb 7, 2015

I recently "went back in time" to prevent a war that cost me a city in the "original history". And if the game lets you, why not use an exploit?

I do see value in challenging yourself and learning from your mistakes, which is why I keep the former maneuver to a minimum and don't re-roll what appear to be unfavorable starts. That said, I'm lucky to get 2 hours a week to play, so I've gotta keep that rare time fun.

How many of you 'cheat' when playing single-player?

Which 'cheats' do you use when playing Civ?

I'll reroll a start I don't like.

I'll load an earlier save game if something doesn't go my way.

I use infoaddict to see information not available in the game.

I use unbalanced MODs (i.e. Brazil All-Uniques, American Domination, etc.)

I'll use IGE to add/change things in my favor.

I'll use exploits like pillage heal.

I'll ONLY play as a top-tier civilization (Babylon, Poland, etc.)

None of the above - any civ, no reroll, no restart, nothing.

Emperor

Deity

Deity

Chieftain

Chieftain

Peacemongering Turtlesaur

Warlord

Salientia of the Community Patch

Great Engineer

Chieftain

Chieftain

Deity

Chieftain

Emperor

Emperor

Deity

zzz

Chieftain

Peacemongering Turtlesaur

Parent, then Civ'er

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