Poland no Pastures?

Sclb said:

AH > pottery in general on plain starts. Unless you really want to rush a religion with shrine.

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Please explain, I feel I'm missing something. You wouldn't have a worker yet, so you can't start building pastures immediately after teching. It's not just shrine, but granary from pottery can kickstart your growth.

I understand I want AH quicker with Poland than most civs, and I definitely want them before I build my first settler so that I have a better understanding of where the good city spots are, just don't know why I need it 1st thing.

Ah, then pottery is fine based on production priorities. Build the granary if you went for pottery or worker if you went for ah and found horse or any other pasturable creatures.

AH shows where the horses are, and you will get the higher production immediately before even building pastures. Building granary before settler often delays settlers. At best you get one extra population before building the first settler. A better use of hammer is to use them to start on a caravan and finish it when you have completed some settlers. This is assuming on deity where you can steal workers in good time and that you have neighboring civs to leech science from.

Callonia said:

Would enabling Legendary Starts help fix the problem for OP?

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IIRC, Legendary Start provides another Luxury Resource around the starting area. I think Strategic Resources would be more helpful to the OP.

Sclb said:

AH shows where the horses are, and you will get the higher production immediately before even building pastures. Building granary before settler often delays settlers. At best you get one extra population before building the first settler. A better use of hammer is to use them to start on a caravan and finish it when you have completed some settlers. This is assuming on deity where you can steal workers in good time and that you have neighboring civs to leech science from.

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Pastures will get you way more production than unworked animal tiles. You can build settlers sooner that way if you start with a worker and make pastures.

Making pastures isn't very high priority tbh. Chopping forests and hooking up lux are both higher priority. Getting AH early shows where the horses are and that's the big thing on plains.

Sclb said:

Making pastures isn't very high priority tbh. Chopping forests and hooking up lux are both higher priority. Getting AH early shows where the horses are and that's the big thing on plains.

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You would have to start with mining->bronze working for chopping and then pottery->calendar for the lux. However, some luxes vary because luxes could be from AH->camping to make animal lux camps or fishing for work boats and ocean water luxes.

sixty4half said:

IDK what you mean by no oral tradition there. Isn't oral tradition +1Culture per plantation?

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Obviously they meant open skies.

If Poland has a plains start bias, then on continents/pangaea/archipelago/donut maps they would likely be less inclined to have as many pastures since cows are never placed on plains. Cows are on plains on great plains maps and some others, but not on many of the "traditional" map scripts. I think both horses and sheep are placed equally on grass or plains.

Either way, Poland without pastures is not that big of a deal. Poland has the best UA, a great UB, and one of the top 5 UUs in the game. They have three strong attributes, whereas some civs have only 1 good attribute and 2 fillers (Portugal, Babylon) or none at all (Iroquois.) Simply utilizing Solidarity and ignoring the other two bonuses Poland gets still leaves them a great deal better than about half of the civs in the game.

Zaimejs said:

I have started and restarted 5 times with Poland, but I never get sheep or cows on the map near the capital.

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Really, those are more important for your expos. Cap is already in a great location!

Sclb said:

AH > pottery in general on plain starts. Unless you really want to rush a religion with shrine.

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I am firmly in the pottery first, AH second camp. For Shrine, earlier is better -- for rushing the pantheon buffs (even if you don't get a religion). If certain lux, then mining before AH too. I just need AH before that first settler.

I agree that granary is low priority for cap. If no wheat or deer, I will postpone the granary until after settlers.