Immortal Benchmarks

i_imperator · Sep 8, 2015

Hey all, so i've been playing civ v a bit more recently and I've decided to get the basics down, I feel as if my timings for the NC and education are way too late for me and I'm not 100% sure why this is. I have a nice game with pacal going right now and I was hoping if anybody could post and suggest any improvements I could make. I'm specifically trying out the 3 city tradition approach.

NC by T85 (or so)
Education was after T100 Ive seen people get it before T100 and Im aiming for that.
Acoustics/rationalism by T127

Spoiler :

phillipwyllie · Sep 8, 2015

I think your NC/Education targets are fine but Acoustics should be your goal after Education. The quicker you unlock Secularism the better imo.

Don't take this the wrong way you've done 2 fundamental mistakes imo:
1.)Settled Ularu, that has location has virtually no production.
2.)Only settled 3 cities

Also 27 culture at t127 is way too low, assuming science is your goal. What turn did Petra go?. Petra is attainable if you pretty much beeline Currency and then carry on to the NC.

i_imperator · Sep 8, 2015

phillipwyllie said:
I think your NC/Education targets are fine but Acoustics should be your goal after Education. The quicker you unlock Secularism the better imo.

Don't take this the wrong way you've done 2 fundamental mistakes imo:
1.)Settled Ularu, that has location has virtually no production.
2.)Only settled 3 cities

Also 27 culture at t127 is way too low, assuming science is your goal. What turn did Petra go?. Petra is attainable if you pretty much beeline Currency and then carry on to the NC.

I thought about going for petra but it went on this run at between t80-95 bismark built it. How do I increase my culture then? I know I had two culture city states but I had alot of problems with the barbs this game. Which other locations/how many cities would you recommend I should've settled instead?

GerrardCapashen · Sep 8, 2015

phillipwyllie said:
Don't take this the wrong way you've done 2 fundamental mistakes imo:
1.)Settled Ularu, that has location has virtually no production.
2.)Only settled 3 cities

I actually think the Uluru city is fine. Just add some lumber mills on the forests and that should provide the production. Avoid working the incense as those tiles should be owned for lux selling but not actually worked by citizens.

I do agree that Maya is a better wide civ so you can reap the benefits of the amazing Pyramid, and maximize your faith gain to buy more pagodas or mosques.

NiSaSh · Sep 8, 2015

Need more screenshots. Early game techpath and buildings/wonders in capital etc.

The Uluru city is more than fine, it brings like 1k gold /30 turns in which is good, especially considering your other settling options. With all the faith you are making per turn you should be able to spread your religion really well and make a lot of gold from the 1 gold per 4 followers.

Three workers are not enough, you want to get everything done as soon as possible and buy Libraries in your cities from the luxgold you get. Everything seems rather slow with your build tho.

What are you using the GE on ? Hopefully not Sixtine, that wonder is so easy to get and the GE seems like a big waste. Also with 47 gold turn I wouldn't build the University for 17 turns, just buy it and build something else.

Depending on the game my techpaths are usually that I get all natural ressources going and sell them asap, buy libraries, get NC + Oracle --> education --> then decison if I can get Pisa, with crappy starting locations it's probably not possible.

i_imperator · Sep 8, 2015

NiSaSh said:
Need more screenshots. Early game techpath and buildings/wonders in capital etc.

The Uluru city is more than fine, it brings like 1k gold /30 turns in which is good, especially considering your other settling options. With all the faith you are making per turn you should be able to spread your religion really well and make a lot of gold from the 1 gold per 4 followers.

Three workers are not enough, you want to get everything done as soon as possible and buy Libraries in your cities from the luxgold you get. Everything seems rather slow with your build tho.

What are you using the GE on ? Hopefully not Sixtine, that wonder is so easy to get and the GE seems like a big waste. Also with 47 gold turn I wouldn't build the University for 17 turns, just buy it and build something else.

Depending on the game my techpaths are usually that I get all natural ressources going and sell them asap, buy libraries, get NC + Oracle --> education --> then decison if I can get Pisa, with crappy starting locations it's probably not possible.

Tech was Pottery, AH, Mining, then to the lux techs which were calendar and masonry, then philosophy, then currency, CS, education and acoustics. Pretty standard non war tech path. I think I threw in sailing in there for the second caravan to get some internal trade routes going.

The GE, I was thinking of using it on Porcelain Tower, or Pisa and then use another GE from that to rush Porcelain, But I haven't really planned that far ahead I wanted to see where I was when I hit acoustics and Unis.

I believe I bought One lib in the Uluru city, but I didnt time the libs between the cap and the other city well, again Ive seen players get education by t90-100 and I want to try and accomplish that.

In hindsight not rushing petra may have hurt me, and I wouldn't have needed to waste turns on sailing for the second caravan as it wasn't on my techpath.

How many workers should I have? Two for the cap one for each other city? Or more?

NiSaSh · Sep 8, 2015

Also, I'm not sure I like the GE, does he add to the GE/GS counter? If so I really really dislike it and probably would just get a Scientist and plant an academy. I could see a prophet being decent here as well to just aggressively spread your religion and get a headstart on the AI and to get your gold going.

I'd really think twice about going all out on Science in this specific game, with that startinglocation it might be more benefitial to play aggressive early game and take some cities.

Sclb · Sep 8, 2015

One fundamental flaw I see is your lack of workers. You should have enough workers to be chopping every forests adjacent to a river, or on a hill, or on top of resources to speed up productions. Also there is enough land to settle 4 cities or more even as tradition. Your capital has around 8 or so tiles that can benefit from petra, so yes, it would've been a massive boost. Take a GS for the first baktun and plant academy. Use the 2nd for GE to rush Leaning Tower of Piza. You don't need sistine for science and it's waste of hammer. You can get another GS from LToP.

NiSaSh · Sep 8, 2015

Yeah Sistine is crap unless you can easily get it through having a really good start, the majority of your culture will come from allied CS, but in this case it might be ok I'm not sure about immortal timeings but it seems rather unlikely you will get Pisa, if you can go Pisa I don't even go for acoustics.

phillipwyllie · Sep 9, 2015

i_imperator said:
I thought about going for petra but it went on this run at between t80-95 bismark built it.

That seems normal in my experience of Immortal. I would've tried for it, possibly in Palenque. Although Tikal with all that forrest.....

i_imperator said:
How do I increase my culture then?

Writing guild then Artists guild. Religion can also provide culture. Some people might recommend burning a great writer to get Secularism quick. The quicker you build the Writer's guild the quicker generate great writers. Although being the Maya you could always pick a great writer as your second great person.

i_imperator said:
Which other locations/how many cities would you recommend I should've settled instead?

4, with one to the west of Palenque along the river.

GerrardCapashen said:
I actually think the Uluru city is fine. Just add some lumber mills on the forests and that should provide the production. Avoid working the incense as those tiles should be owned for lux selling but not actually worked by citizens.

I guess you are right, for me though lumber mills only become useful at Scientific Theory.

i_imperator · Sep 9, 2015

If i decide to go for Petra when should NC be finished by? I'm having lots of trouble with build orders and setup on this map and its starting to get frustrating now, the barbs are really annoying me too with at least three camps nearby. And should I just buy the 4th settler? the problem with that is that I wont have enough gold for libraries in time for NC

And in terms of opening builds i'm going Scout Monument Shrine Worker Settler Settler Granary Petra NC, or something along those lines, and stealing one worker from a CS and another from Germany. I'm really not sure if this is the best build however.

NiSaSh · Sep 9, 2015

I rarely build workers early game, it just delays everything by too much. Same goes for the Monument. I'd also advice you not going for Petra, try to win without wonders first, it just allows you to learn the game without being reliant on wonders.
Don't make up your mind about builds, builds change with the startinglocation and gameflow. Sometimes I don't get to steal workers, sometimes I have 2 workers by turn 10 because I had a neighbour, there is just a lot of factors.

phillipwyllie · Sep 9, 2015

i_imperator said:
If i decide to go for Petra when should NC be finished by?....

I consistently get it by t90 but never in my cap, and I play Spain. If I'm lucky and have ~~played exceptionally well~~ was lucky I might not even delay the NC. Normally it's around 10 turns due to the bee-lining Currency.

i_imperator said:
....I'm having lots of trouble with build orders and setup on this map and its starting to get frustrating now...

build orders need to go out the window as barbs are a pain so a few archers need to be built. My rule is if there are granary resources then that is built first(expo), monument if a culture ruin has not been popped, shrine if no other way of generating faith(you have Ularu).

i_imperator said:
...And should I just buy the 4th settler? the problem with that is that I wont have enough gold for libraries in time for NC...

I'd go for a 3 city NC with Petra in Tikal(chop chop) and settle your 4th city the turn you complete the NC. Just remember Petra is a gamble, if it pays off you benefit, if not then you throw your keyboard out of the window......

You want to steal as many workers as you can, just be careful. DOWing 2 different CS will stop you getting the welcome bonus. DOWing a warmonger will make you loos youre cap as they probably wont sue for peace, unless you are able to steal most/all their settlers.

Sclb · Sep 9, 2015

It's highly unlikely you can finish petra before AI does on an expo on higher difficulties without a GE rush. And yes, you should always go currency before philosophy if you decide to go that route. Petra is frequently gone before turn 80 so you pretty much have to beeline for it.

i_imperator · Sep 9, 2015

phillipwyllie said:
I consistently get it by t90 but never in my cap, and I play Spain. If I'm lucky and have ~~played exceptionally well~~ was lucky I might not even delay the NC. Normally it's around 10 turns due to the bee-lining Currency.

build orders need to go out the window as barbs are a pain so a few archers need to be built. My rule is if there are granary resources then that is built first(expo), monument if a culture ruin has not been popped, shrine if no other way of generating faith(you have Ularu).

I'd go for a 3 city NC with Petra in Tikal(chop chop) and settle your 4th city the turn you complete the NC. Just remember Petra is a gamble, if it pays off you benefit, if not then you throw your keyboard out of the window......

You want to steal as many workers as you can, just be careful. DOWing 2 different CS will stop you getting the welcome bonus. DOWing a warmonger will make you loos youre cap as they probably wont sue for peace, unless you are able to steal most/all their settlers.

That's one issue in my game there's only one granary resource near my cap (the corn) is it still worth building the granary in that case?

Ill play out another session of it, and try again, Ill post an update sometime tomorrow.

joncnunn · Sep 9, 2015

i_imperator said:
That's one issue in my game there's only one granary resource near my cap (the corn) is it still worth building the granary in that case?

Ill play out another session of it, and try again, Ill post an update sometime tomorrow.

YES! It's worth building a granary even if there are no tiles with extra bonuses. The 2f is powerful enough in its own right.

stormtrooper412 · Sep 10, 2015

I always ALWAYS get a Granary early. After getting out the 2 expos, it's granary and library

i_imperator · Sep 10, 2015

Ok so ill definitely build the granary then, so I attempted to get Petra in Tikal but I lost it at turn 86 Only started NC in my cap about two turns ago, I dunno whats going wrong and I feel as If im making mistakes. I stole a worker from Austria and Ormus and built the others, I tried to steal one from germany but he had too many units around Berlin. I cant ever seem to get more than one worker from the AI either which is quite frustrating.

Edit: Played it out again and here i am in the T160s, got Pisa, got Porcelain Tower and I took the GS first form the long count, then engineer, then engineer from pisa to rush porcelain. I still feel as if my secondary cities are too small. Got about 5 workers this time.

NiSaSh · Sep 10, 2015

Do not take an engineer from Pisa, take a GS. The AI rarely has Rationalism before you do(You can check in the worldpolitics tab), so getting the GE will just increase your counter and make Pisa worthless.

Sclb · Sep 10, 2015

There's usually no point to rush Porcelain tower with GE, rarely AI take rationalism that early and attempt to rush that wonder. You can build it normally, and don't even need to build it in capital. The only time you would take a GE instead of GS from Piza is when you're trying for CV and need to rush other renaissance wonders.

You can check in the worldpolitics tab

This is actually a trap since it wont show if the AI only has opener, and I've seen them build wonders with only opener, but usually porcelain tower is a safe bet. It's also useful to learn how to look at the sprite or skeleton for each wonder and know if they're constructing or not.

Immortal Benchmarks

Imperator

Attachments

Wannabe Deity

Imperator

Benalish Master-at-Arms

Chieftain

Imperator

Chieftain

Emperor

Chieftain

Wannabe Deity

Imperator

Chieftain

Wannabe Deity

Emperor

Imperator

Senior Java Wizard

Peacemongering Turtlesaur

Imperator

Attachments

Chieftain

Emperor

Similar threads