Vassal states

civbone · Jan 15, 2015

It's really not any different than your opponent bribing a powerful ally against you, and that's fine, I guess?. The vassal state offer is simply a good offer to an AI.

It's also realistic, I would argue. There may be plenty of reasons why a powerful civilization doesn't want another one getting more powerful, and so choose to support weak victims of other civs.

Seraiel · Jan 17, 2015

nfw said:
Always reject peace vassals, they are just too troublesome. If it's weak enough to peace vassal it won't be hard to cap it yourself

No. Reject the peace-vassalage first, then bribe AI to peace, and then accept the vassalage

Peace-vassaling a lot of opponents is one of the very fast ways to win a game via Domination or conquest

.

The7Sins · Jan 19, 2015

Anyone know if it is possible to edit the XML or if there is a mod already made to allow vassal states but to disable colonies?

If yes to either please show the code that needs to be changed or link to the mod that does this.

reddishrecue · Jan 20, 2015

You have to talk to the numbnut AI to see if the AI will accept a vassal state proposal. The AI doesnt always accept the proposal so you have to keep asking the AI until the AI proposes capitulation. What I don't know is how to become the vassal state to a powerful AI.

civfanchambers · Jan 21, 2015

Welcome back The7sins, hope you're feeling better.

The7Sins · Jan 21, 2015

civfanchambers said:
Welcome back The7sins, hope you're feeling better.

Thanks. Glad to be back.
2014 was a "fun" year. Death, suicide attempt, mental hospital stay, jail, and now finally (as of December) back home.

Jathug · Feb 9, 2015

I have a vassal (was at war AI capitulated). I now see my vassal has oil and I don't. I was to go to war with my vassal and wipe him out thus getting the oil. Can I do this and if so how, please?

Pangaea · Feb 9, 2015

You can demand the oil from him/her.

Lexicus · Feb 9, 2015

reddishrecue said:
What I don't know is how to become the vassal state to a powerful AI.

Pretty sure it's impossible for human players to be vassals of anyone else, at least in single player. Not sure how this works in multiplayer.

Jathug, if you have a vassal, you can demand resources from him and there will be an option "time for your tribute! refusal means WAR!" They will have to give the resources or you automatically go to war with them.

elmurcis · Feb 10, 2015

In my current game I took 5 best MansaMusa cities and he agree to capitulate with 16 cities left (not so good cities but still huge number)... Does he takes account that I already have 3 vassals (with 4 cities left each)? My power ratio at capitulation moment was 1.2 (bigger for me) and his WWariness was ~200...
Is there any risk of getting huge vassal (capitulation, ofcourse)? (his land is 37% of mine, pop 41%..). It was big step forward to my 1st no-tech trading deity domination victory, but still curious about this situation..

Carrot Iron · Feb 13, 2015

Peace vassalage is great. What's awful is when fighting a large AI on one continent and they create a colony on another before you can wipe them out. Sure, they've further driven themselves into defeat by adding the extra economic burden, but the AI always is less likely to capitulate when they themselves are in control of a colony/vassal. I haven't played a game yet where I could demand capitulation from a foe when they still controlled a fair size vassal (who for whatever reason, decided not to break free).

Now when I go to peace vassal someone, just check and see if they are at war first. It is usually pretty easy to hasten the situation by declaring war, sure, but if on two fronts, then it is best to to divide your stacks.

Lexicus · Feb 13, 2015

elmurcis said:
In my current game I took 5 best MansaMusa cities and he agree to capitulate with 16 cities left (not so good cities but still huge number)... Does he takes account that I already have 3 vassals (with 4 cities left each)? My power ratio at capitulation moment was 1.2 (bigger for me) and his WWariness was ~200...
Is there any risk of getting huge vassal (capitulation, ofcourse)? (his land is 37% of mine, pop 41%..). It was big step forward to my 1st no-tech trading deity domination victory, but still curious about this situation..

Yes, I'm pretty sure the AI takes your vassals into account. When you have vassals a fraction of their power is added to yours for the purpose of demo/AI calculations.

Jathug · Feb 22, 2015

Lexicus - tried what you said - demanded tribute in my current game which was refused by the AI. But I still couldn't go to war as it kept saying you cannot declare war. I am playing Noble perhaps there's different rules for different levels?

elitetroops · Feb 22, 2015

Did you specifically demand a resource? Demanding gold or techs will not trigger war.

reddishrecue · Feb 22, 2015

Lexicus said:
Pretty sure it's impossible for human players to be vassals of anyone else, at least in single player. Not sure how this works in multiplayer.

Jathug, if you have a vassal, you can demand resources from him and there will be an option "time for your tribute! refusal means WAR!" They will have to give the resources or you automatically go to war with them.

The creators maybe did this because the plays were played to win. So if you become a vassal, then you wouldnt be able to win since you end up watching another ai that wants to win.

Seraiel · Feb 22, 2015

reddishrecue said:
The creators maybe did this because the plays were played to win. So if you become a vassal, then you wouldnt be able to win since you end up watching another ai that wants to win.

Vassals still have the chance to win. Mansa tried to sneak in a cultural victory twice from me, after he peace-vassaled to me. In both times I noticed, because I saw that he wasn't researching any techs for me anymore!

Spoiler :

reddishrecue · Feb 22, 2015

Seraiel said:
Vassals still have the chance to win. Mansa tried to sneak in a cultural victory twice from me, after he peace-vassaled to me. In both times I noticed, because I saw that he wasn't researching any techs for me anymore!

Spoiler :

I sent him a bunch of spies that destroyed his Cathedrals as a payback. Unfortunately, that didn't make him re-start on researching

Vassals could win but the master is supposed to win.

Lexicus · Feb 23, 2015

Jathug said:
Lexicus - tried what you said - demanded tribute in my current game which was refused by the AI. But I still couldn't go to war as it kept saying you cannot declare war. I am playing Noble perhaps there's different rules for different levels?

Look at your deal history with the AI. Making any kind of per-turn deal with them means you cannot declare war for (I think) 10 turns on Standard speed.

And as elitetroops notes, the tribute-or-war option is only there if the tribute is in the form of resources (luxury or strategic), it doesn't work if you just demand gold or techs.

If you demand resources there should be a "Time for your tribute! Refusal means war!" option which if they refuse results in immediate DoW.

Like I said, this actually happened to me once when I decided to demand all of Mansa's resources (I didn't need them, just like screwing with the AI) and he actually went to war.

Re-loader · Feb 17, 2016

I'm having some troubles with a vassal.

I want to take some of his cities. Previously, in the diplomatic screen, the option for him to gift me cities was there. He has developed a bit, and now he can't offer me any of his cities.

I can't release him, and making excessive demands does not lead to refusal and war(which is what I want).

Does anyone have any suggestions to achieve what I want?

Lexicus · Feb 17, 2016

Civ4_boi said:
I'm having some troubles with a vassal.

I want to take some of his cities. Previously, in the diplomatic screen, the option for him to gift me cities was there. He has developed a bit, and now he can't offer me any of his cities.

I can't release him, and making excessive demands does not lead to refusal and war(which is what I want).

Does anyone have any suggestions to achieve what I want?

Unfortunately, you may be screwed. Simplest would be to use Worldbuilder to change the diplomatic status, if you don't want to do that you could try gifting her units until your relative power ratings make her think she can refuse your demands. I'm not sure how well that would work though and obviously it could backfire if you give too many units.

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