AI building and upgrading armies

This question had been asked before myself included. I just had an idea im gonna go test.

What if:

-We gave a unique military world wonder to each civ giving them a specific tech (no
era specific) to each in the free tech window?

-To activate the wonder you would need X amount of improvements built and those
improvements require a specific tech?

-We made that unique military world wonder place a 'military academy' like building
on every city which would allow the AI to upgrade their armies, and give more
chances to the AI to build armies for a small sacrifice?

Besides that there is the obvious auto-production which I'm not too fond off, but still have on wonders like Art of war, and the great wall.

The other thing im gonna go check out is if I could help the AI by making the initial upgrade of an army be an immobile non-army unit, then back to an army playing around with the 'king' flag. This would unload obsolete units, then they can load them with more advanced ones.

I'm 90% sure most of this will work as its a similar set up like implementing religion. The upgrading part might partly work. I dont know how far I can get with the whole unloading idea and the AI participating in it.

I think making the military academy go obsolete at the end of each age would limit the impact of the autoproduced armies. Do you remember (if you played Civ I or Civ II) when all your barracks would go obsolete once you researched Gunpowder or Combustion? It would require a new small wonder to be built, using the same tribe-specific Free Tech, but the graphics would change to reflect the new improvement. Say, for example, the Industrial Age military academy would churn out George Washington-style armies, while the armies which had been created by the Middle Ages military academy would continue to be King Arthur-style. Alternatively, and I prefer this route, the former-era armies would change to reflect the new era just like when workers and settlers change appearance, but still not look like the new autoproduced armies. Logically, the new armies would have better statistics, because historically nations were prone to not update their militaries until they absolutely had to do so.

A further note on your idea. Sure, autoproducing is problematic, but you could penalize the player by upping the support cost of the unit and/or improvement, and in any case, the autoproducer will not produce an army if you don't have the proper number of cities or the correct resources, if you choose to go that route as well.

I have upgradable Armies in my game.

They do not unload their units when upgrading. Also they can only be upgraded at the Military Academy (the KI does not understand this).

Have you read this thread?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=508623

the autoproducer will not produce an army if you don't have the proper number of cities or the correct resources, if you choose to go that route as well.

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Resources yes, but autoproduced armies seems to be independent of the number of cities. I have once encountered a very-bad-start-one-city-island-state with five armies (I ignored them as harmless during most of the game and the Palace is autoproducing every 100 rounds a small footunit army).

I hadn't searched the General Forum, only the Creation & Customization Forum, so I missed it when I was compiling information on armies for a mod I'm constructing.

Some of the information on the thread may be invalid. Others (I don't recall who, exactly) have tested the armies and found that abilities thought to be unable to be used do, in fact, remain usable so long as the Army unit itself has the proper flags checked.

That's unfortunate about the number of cities cap not working for autoproduction. Was it wrong of me to presume that since the AI checks for the availability of Ivory to autoproduce an Ancient Cavalry with the Statue of Zeus wonder, and checks the number of cities you have before giving you the option to train an Army at Military Academy, that, somehow, it would do the exact same thing for a wonder than autoproduces armies?

Others (I don't recall who, exactly) have tested the armies and found that abilities thought to be unable to be used do, in fact, remain usable so long as the Army unit itself has the proper flags checked.

Click to expand...

Did you mean this post?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=13848679&postcount=43

Than that would be me.

Instead of making a new post I'm gonna ask you guys here.

I've been wondering for some time if the AI uses leaders mainly to rush works or to build armies. Does anyone know?

I don't think I ever saw the AI making an army even after it had gotten a leader. I got plans with leaders, but if they only use them to rush, then it wont work.

The only time I've ever seen an army was when I changed Sun Tzu's wonder to act like a military academy. I've seen many, many leaders, but always assumed they were finishing improvements. Knowing the A.I. I assumed it wasted the leader on building a granary or barracks or something silly like that. I think this is why so many modders have changed the Battle-Created Unit in the General Settings tab to say Army (or its equivalent) rather than Great Leader. We want the game to work as described, but it doesn't, so we end up adding a whole bunch of workarounds to make it work like we feel it should.

I can confirm Erebas post.

I have never seen the KI using a Military Leader to build an army.

They just use them to rush buildings or units.

In my rule set I have the Military Academy to be enabled without victorious army and, the Military School (Feudalism, builds an Army every 30 turns) with victorious army and the Palace autoproducing a small foot-unit-only-army every 100 turns (longest possible interval). The Pentagon has been moved to Nationalism and required now 6 Armies.

Even befor the introduction of the Military School and the Palace produced Royal Guard, the KI was building the free for all Military Academy and subsequently Armies

I gotta say I went from seeing a couple of armies in the duration of a game to many armies. It's been a scary game for me.

What I did:

-Great wall produces a general (non-leader) which upgrades to an army every 20 turns. Obsolets before industrial times

-Sun Tzu produces a general (non-leader) which upgrades to an army every 20 turns. Obsoletes before industrial times

-Battle created unit is an army

-Military academy also produces a general every 15 turns down from 20 turns since the game slows down by then. Does not go obsolete. Eventually this general will be upgraded to a 'foot' only army which only they can utilize.

-The pentagon allowed with mobile transport. The game slows down, so it produces an army every 12 turns, which only armored vehicles can utilize.

As a result for armies being more common I've lowered how many units you can load down to 1, and support down to 2, and they work as additional promotions to the units loaded. Age 1 army = +1Hp, age 2=+2, age 3=+3, age 4 stays at +3hp, but gains 1 movement point for foot only armies.

Now to go test this cookie. I will see if tanks labeled as 'missiles' can load to an army with 'transport tactical missile only' just like 'foot'/'transports only foot units', and see if it works for the AI.

So far foot was a success. If it works I will, then add a cavalry army, which will be just like the vehicle army for pre tank eras.

ZergMazter said:

Instead of making a new post I'm gonna ask you guys here.

I've been wondering for some time if the AI uses leaders mainly to rush works or to build armies. Does anyone know?

I don't think I ever saw the AI making an army even after it had gotten a leader. I got plans with leaders, but if they only use them to rush, then it wont work.

Click to expand...

I am not sure about Conquests, but I have seen the AI build both Leaders and Armies in the Test of Time Scenario by TETurkhan. While testing it for use in my summer games class, I was the English, and had the Celts in Ireland. it that scenario, it is possible to build Leaders, if you set things up properly, and the Celts build and used several armies on me.

Interesting timerover51. I think Conquests broke quite a few things lol.

ZergMazter said:

Interesting timerover51. I think Conquests broke quite a few things lol.

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No, what it appears is that Leader and Army are specifically hard-coded as terms in both Conquests and Play the World. If you have "Leaders" and "Armies" as units, they can be built immediately if there are no Tech Advance or resource restrictions. Also, if you set another unit, I have used the Conquistador, with "Leader" characteristics, the unit can be built as a regular unit, subject to the normal restriction on having to be able to be built by the civilization. It can then build armies, hurry improvements, both Wonders and standard buildings, and also hurry unit build. Now, that is playing the Test of Time scenario under Play the World. As stated, the AI was actively using the Leaders, which caused me no end of problems.

Try Test of Time, older version, under Play the World, with some of the Asian countries, and you will get an idea as to what I mean.

Once I am finished with getting ready for my son and his fiancee's visit next weekend, I am going to do some poking at Conquest, using the regular editor and see what happens. My initial trial, playing Test of Time under Conquests, gave similar results.