Really not getting the tourism winning conditions....

'When your cumulative tourism output (for the entire game) surpasses the cumulative culture output of each remaining civilization in the game... you win'.

WTF?

Does this mean the game has to go to the last turn and then we add it all up?

And 'cumulative culture output of each'.... is that each one separately, or all of them together?

Culture wins are a mystery to me these days.....

This site can perhaps be of help

http://www.carlsguides.com/strategy/civilization5/culturalvictory.php

DemonMaster said:

This site can perhaps be of help

http://www.carlsguides.com/strategy/civilization5/culturalvictory.php

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Wow, what a fantastic site - that is really helpful, thanks.

Some tips that site didn't mention:

• Never ever give open borders
• Concentrate on the cultural leader(not the tourism leader) with your trade routes and buying open borders from.
• Culture generation starts from turn 1, tourism starts when you build your guilds, I usually like them built in the Renaissance era.
• Scrutinize the Renaissance tech tree and learn the cultural wonders in there so you can plan your tech path and policy path accordingly. It's possible to get them all, even though you can't fill them with theming works of art you will deny them to your competitors.

A quick and cheesy way is to beeline The internet then Radar without building the musician's guild(thusly not generating any great musicians). When you have airports and the national visitors center up you should time it to spawn your first great musician(by building your musician's guild) which you send on a concert tour to the cultural leader. Using faith to culture bomb the cultural leader will very quickly have them influential, the rest will follow shortly.

An even quicker way is to pick the sacred sites reformation belief and ics like mad, even to the point of going unhappy. If you manage to pick to faith building related follower beliefs then you'll win before the industrial era.

Another way is to play as Indonesia and beeline Refrigeration, then Internet, then Radar. When you have researched Refrigeration you get tourism from your Moai which you can spam all over your continent, regardless of the resource you will loose. Coupled with a few will place concert bombs will give you cultural victory.

phillipwyllie said:

Some tips that site didn't mention:

Another way is to play as Indonesia and beeline Refrigeration, then Internet, then Radar.

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As (for whatever reason) the moai tourism bump from Airports is much higher than the bump from Hotels, it's arguable that you might want to hit Radar before Internet. On the other hand, the Visitor's Center is in Telecommunications, right before Internet, so ...

Also, I think that not offering Open Borders, Ever, is extreme. Them influencing you doesn't slow down you influencing them as far as a Cultural Victory is concerned. It *does* matter for Ideology happiness/unhappiness, but on Immortal and below, if you're going for a Cultural victory, I think you'll generally have enough of a tech/culture/tourism lead by the time the AI gets ideologies that you won't get dinged too hard (if at all).

On the other hand, if you're going for a military victory or somesuch, and Darius is close to you in tech and has full Aesthetics and his usual complement of 15+ wonders ... you may not want to give him OB.

DemonMaster said:

This site can perhaps be of help

http://www.carlsguides.com/strategy/civilization5/culturalvictory.php

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That article's actually in our War Academy now, with a couple of updates (which I think Carl is going to edit into the article you linked).

Never give open borders? I thought you WANTED people visiting you?

The game I'm playing is whack. No war, not once. But I look at the 'tourism/culture' screen and I'm only about in the middle... EVERYONE is going for tourism.

I'm 300 points ahead of the closest competitor, yet tourism wise, they're doing better than me (and I'm doing pretty good).

Sherlock said:

Never give open borders? I thought you WANTED people visiting you?

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That would make a little more sense, if it helped if it was going both ways, but the game's conceit is that you want your people to visit THEM and ostensibly build lots of McDonalds and blue jeans factories and talk up how awesome it is to live in Sherlockolis.

And then when they can't visit, because you don't give Open Borders, they get so upset that they start a revolution and/or join your civilization. After which, in the latter case, they are miserable for 20 turns. Or something.

Yeah, don't think about it too hard ...

Sherlock said:

Never give open borders? I thought you WANTED people visiting you?

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You get bonus tourism by having their borders open to you. So if you open your borders to them, it's giving them the bonus, not you.

Don't think about it too hard...it's backwards, I know

If their borders are open to you, it means your military can wander through their lands, spreading influence. Like US military bases in countries such as Japan.

In my own experence, A human going after culture victory never has to worry about an AI beating them to cultural victory.
And so you may as well have both borders open; you'll become influential over him long before he becomes influential over you.

The main time in which it's critical to have your own borders closed is when the human didn't build the guilds.

chazzycat said:

You get bonus tourism by having their borders open to you. So if you open your borders to them, it's giving them the bonus, not you.

Don't think about it too hard...it's backwards, I know

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I don't know that it's completely backwards -- I think that overall, if a country (say, France) was trying to slow the cultural influence of, say, Society A, they'd get farther by banning members of Society A from being in and opening up businesses in that country, (i.e., not open their borders), as opposed to denying tourist visas (i.e., the equivalent of Society A not opening our borders to them).

Opening your borders means that theoretically every member of your society can be exposed to the chums trying to influence you, every day of every week. Open borders elsewhere means that those citizens you have that do business abroad or go on vacation get influenced a bit.

I want this bonus for my tourism from open borders.
Open borders boost AI tourism, not culture. To win a CV you need to surround their culture, not their tourism. So pick open borders as soon as you start to produce tourism.

By the way, Moai are UI for Polynesia, not Indonesia.