Runaways are back after the Patch
- Thread starter Hakuoh
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Gamewizard
Emperor
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2011
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- 1,234
An 8 tech lead is not that big of a lead, IMO. Focus on food and growth and scientists and you will catch up. Also, sign RAs with every other AI.
leadtothehead
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2013
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- 64
Rome and Iroquois as runaways?, I am shocked! 
At some point I generally find myself behind by 4+ at least by measure of techs researched, but most of the time that's due to a unbalanced path through the tech tree, some AIs will generally look better statistically because they are more balanced in their path through the tech tree.
At some point I generally find myself behind by 4+ at least by measure of techs researched, but most of the time that's due to a unbalanced path through the tech tree, some AIs will generally look better statistically because they are more balanced in their path through the tech tree.
Yeah, 8% literary isn't that large. Often if I expand a little too quickly on Immortal and get a turn 70 nc then I'll be about 10% as I bee line for education. Once you get your unis down you're good, and you'll be researching technologies quickly and catching up.
I feel literacy should be equal to the sum of all your beakers produced over the game instead of how many techs, much more accurate.
I feel literacy should be equal to the sum of all your beakers produced over the game instead of how many techs, much more accurate.
Rome's UA allows him to quickly build up cities. August likes to go Rationalism and build Porcelain Tower, then sign dozens of RA. I am not surprised he's the tech lead, I often see him far far advanced then any other AI in my games.
Arabia is similar, he's one of the rare AIs that will often go science then culture. Maybe it's just me, but it seems that every single civ only picks "Arts funding" in World Congress. Except Arabia.
and Assyria and Korea from time to time. 
Well Iam almost in the Atomic Era.
So its pereety hard to catch up.
Seems like i need to Millitary assault him.
It's generally a good idea, especially on higher levels, to regularly spend money bribing other AI civs to DoW each other. This slows down their general development (have to spend production on units), and leaves them with less friends to do RAs etc. with in the long run.
You have to pick them well, though, less they end up being among those who have decent relationship and who don't hold grudges over war if cities were not taken (like Napoléon and Bismarck, often enough). I've got many instances where I've bribed two civs to go to war only to see them sign a DoF not so long after... A DoF for which I paid a luxury or gpt for...
budweiser
King of the Beers
Most of the time I don't become number 1 in science until t200.
phillipwyllie
Wannabe Deity
Post patch nerfed RAs somewhat. Never sign a Ra with a civ who is way behind as you'll not benefit much(especially as you need to pay more as they are an era behind).
The patch corrected a flaw by which the AI neglected/didn't prioritize enough its science buildings. That was harming massively the wider civs in the game that grew big but fell back in science, and with the warmongering penalties lost most other means to catch up (RAs, TR to foreign civs, etc.)
I've played on King since the patch (just moved back to Emperor again), and I find them much better in science indeed. You need now to be more careful about the wide civs, especially the ones that build tall first and circa the Renaissance begin to conquer with success and become wide. The Casimir AI is the best at that in my post patch games, especially if he starts on my continent with a few neighbors . Mid game he swallows them up and transforms into a science runaway with a mighty army. Of course the human don't give him the warmongering penalties, so he ends up my main trade partner by default after eating up my friends, which isn't good. If on the other continent one or two AI have become strong too, he switches to culture or science, with success.
A side effect of the tweaks is that now that the AI doesn't neglect Universities the wider ones have tons of cities in which to build archeologists, which they do.
In my first patched game I installed the patch mid game only to see the huge but backward Casimir become both tech and culture leader. He had both a SV and a CV within reach, I was only able to stop him by winning diplo on the second session for WL. The warmonger penalties make it harder to control runaways like this aggressively.
Now I find it's better to take no chance and play the early King/prince games more with the science catch up strategies used on the higher levels, and eventually get ready to build or grab a few more cities (in peace deals, preferably, or by buying/marrying CS if you're Venice or Austria) mid-game if you find out the wide civs are catching up on your early tech lead.
Doing that gives enough of a tech lead and makes Prince/King pretty forgiving again by mid game or so. The few times the AI caught up again in Modern, I finally went wide/tall as I had the happiness and money for it (as Venice, so a mixed strategy of buying big CS and buying them all the science buildings immediately, and conquering my neighbor patiently, not taking cities but getting them in peace deals, warring with allies whenever I did, all this before I finally went for his capital late enough that it only gave me a minor penalty. I was able to avoid most grief, keep my DoFs and thus the RA opportunities. I was in the Information Era when the first AI reached Atomic, the others over 20% behind).
Nered or not, it's hard to make that a universal rule unless you have a great tech lead, and even then there can be other reasons to sign them.
You have to check first if they haven't another friend with gold with which they will sign a RA on the next turn if you refuse their offer. Otherwise those AI behind you will slowly catch up while you gain nothing.
If there's an AI ahead of you with the Porcelain Tower (much worse if they also get Scientific Revolution), it's not wise to let it sign RAs you could stop by signing them first. If I'm rich enough, I may even gift the gold to any mutual friends that are getting close to being able to have a RA, then sign a RA with them. You'd gain more by signing a RA with him, but he will gain even way more than you from it. Often it's better to handicap him and use other means to progress and catch up.
It doesn't matter as much when I'm confident of getting a CV or Diplo or Domination victory first, but even going for Culture a science runaway that manage to beeline the Great Firewall and void Internet before you even get it can destroy your CV.
In general I find it better to get all the RAs I can, avoiding perhaps those with the owner of the Porcelain Tower if he's too ahead of me, and that not always. RA are also virtually purchasing a Non Aggression Pact - in BNW games I have yet to be DoWed by a Civ I have a RA with. I think having one might even contribute to reducing the effects of warmongering penalties indirectly. In my last game I was able to keep DoFs renewed despite the Civs becoming neutral or guarded with me (previously "afraid", ie: friendly). I had RAs with them. I suspected they renewed the DoF because the RA kept them "happier" than angry, and then the DoF itself did too when the RA was over, which lead to signing another RA etc. It's like the chain of denouncements in reverse. Theorically anyway, I'm not sure it's that and the "afraid" status and shared ideology was also helping.
Oh if you hate those guys (but usually they self-destruct technologically anyway by founding 20 cities even after the patch) you're going to REALLY HATE Korea
Whenever they're in the game I feel like banging my head against the keyboard esp. when they have no aggressive neighbors I can bribe.
Whenever they're in the game I feel like banging my head against the keyboard esp. when they have no aggressive neighbors I can bribe.
sendos
Immortal
Easier said than done, especially when AI's later in the game tend to hoard up their units at their capital.
That can also be a most inconvenient solution when crippling a runaway might not be achieved simply by taking his capital and it might earn you a warmongering reputation.... bye-bye DoF, RA etc.
Always pick up warmonger, AIs that are close to each other (they will eventually fight anyway) or AIs that already asks you to join in a war against AI-2, or someone they denounced.
I usually pay up Shaka or Monthy in early games to harass someone, especially guys like Alex or Siam, who will become powerhouse in late games. Alex can't stand up to Shaka in early games, but Monthy will annoy him for some 10-20 turns... 20 turns of Alex not building nothing but units will slow him down in a long run.
So, in order to keep with the tech you still only need a small number of decent sized cities now? I see there is a science penaly which is per-city - and I think that includes puppets too.
How about a situation where things are very peaceful? I have tried offering say 1000g for people to make war, but they don't bite' Any suggestions?
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