Should a scout be the first thing you build in your capital right from the start?

It depends on your start. For instance if you get more than one salt in your cap, it's highly advisable to start with a worker first. If you find a natural wonder near you cap, and you get a pop ruin, you should build a settler. Admittedly there are some civs that have universal starts, with Spain 99 times out of 100 building at least 2 scouts (unless starting on an island) while Ethiopia should probably build a stele 9 times out of 10.
 
trolling aside, I think it might be possible to 2 turn a scout on quick speed.

building a scout first is good 90% of the time, other 10% of the time it's monument worker. of course there's not a whole lot of point building scouts if you turn ruins off, but people rarely do that.
 
Even with ruins off I build a scout first. You can't get CS quests if you don't meet them, and CS buffs are very strong.
 
I play Epic games only, usually Pangaea, two scouts first, my general rule. Besides the benefits I simply just like exploring.
 
Just to throw in my 2 cents I always like to build a 2nd jaguar with the Aztecs. They still get 2 movement in forest and jungle. They don't have it on hills or rivers but since I'm trying to do a rush later in the game they get the job done for me.

Plus I open both tradition and honor. That way I get the bonus to Culture from tradition and I get double the culture from every barbarian killed. On top of that my 2 Jags can handle barbs no with no problem compared to the scout. Plus once Im done mapping with them, I now have a worker guard or barb hunting brigade
 
Worker > Monument > Scout
Depending on what civ you're going as.
I usually go as Babylon, so I rush Liberty to get the workers and free settler and build a small empire from there.
If you're an expansionist civ, then rush the scout > monument > worker, and if you're inbetween go monument > worker/Scout > scout/worker
 
OnceAKing said:
Just to throw in my 2 cents I always like to build a 2nd jaguar with the Aztecs. They still get 2 movement in forest and jungle. They don't have it on hills or rivers but since I'm trying to do a rush later in the game they get the job done for me.

Plus I open both tradition and honor. That way I get the bonus to Culture from tradition and I get double the culture from every barbarian killed. On top of that my 2 Jags can handle barbs no with no problem compared to the scout. Plus once Im done mapping with them, I now have a worker guard or barb hunting brigade
Click to expand...

I agree with all of this.
 
NeoHellas said:
Worker > Monument > Scout
Depending on what civ you're going as.
I usually go as Babylon, so I rush Liberty to get the workers and free settler and build a small empire from there.
If you're an expansionist civ, then rush the scout > monument > worker, and if you're inbetween go monument > worker/Scout > scout/worker
Click to expand...

This is bad advice.

Going worker first if you are going Liberty is a waste of prescious early game hammers.

Going Liberty as Babylon is pointless and has little merit compared to the awesomness of Tradition for that civ.

If you're an expansionist civ you go scouts monument into archers into comp. bowmen and steal workers...
 
Liberty is not that bad for babylon. You don't even need construction to wage early war because Babylonian Bowmen are almost as good as Composites. A friend of mine once joked that for Babylon the Archery technology should be renamed "Bowmanship." Either way they are pretty amazing.

Worker first can work but it's very situational. You need to actually have tiles that you can improve and benefit from. godissociety mentioned salt upthread, but other mining luxes and lots of forest can work too. But if you're deep in the forest you're probably better off building scouts. In nearly all cases you're better off going scout first.
 
crabe said:
Liberty is not that bad for babylon. You don't even need construction to wage early war because Babylonian Bowmen are almost as good as Composites. A friend of mine once joked that for Babylon the Archery technology should be renamed "Bowmanship." Either way they are pretty amazing.

Worker first can work but it's very situational. You need to actually have tiles that you can improve and benefit from. godissociety mentioned salt upthread, but other mining luxes and lots of forest can work too. But if you're deep in the forest you're probably better off building scouts. In nearly all cases you're better off going scout first.
Click to expand...

Liberty is bad for Babylon since they benefit more from the extra growth and hapiness in their capital, even if they want to warmonger. After early bowmen skirmishes they will have to go for Dynamite to finish off the map, and you can't get that faster than with Tradition.

Worker forst when going Liberty is really bad. Worker first in general MAY be OK, but usually isn't IMO.

Overall you're trying to argue with me but you kind of agreed, even if you tried to dig up some specific cases.
 
Liberty as bablyon is situational comparatively to how much land you have, along with your start. Ideally bablyon should rush writing into NC, so opening liberty for prod then a settler frees up your cap for wonder rushing (going one city on a large land mass above emperor is suicidal depending on your neighbors). I wouldn't go full liberty (I personally would open tradition for culture, then liberty settler, then finish tradition), but going liberty as bablyon has merits and shouldn't be dismissed
 
Myth and Legend said:
Liberty is bad for Babylon since they benefit more from the extra growth and hapiness in their capital, even if they want to warmonger. After early bowmen skirmishes they will have to go for Dynamite to finish off the map, and you can't get that faster than with Tradition.

Worker forst when going Liberty is really bad. Worker first in general MAY be OK, but usually isn't IMO.

Overall you're trying to argue with me but you kind of agreed, even if you tried to dig up some specific cases.
Click to expand...

Moriarte's liberty domination strategy (for example) works better for Babylon than it does for most other civs even if Tradition is "better." Babylon is god-tier, they can make nearly any strategy work.

I agree with the rest.
 
Myth and Legend said:
Liberty is bad for Babylon since they benefit more from the extra growth and hapiness in their capital, even if they want to warmonger. After early bowmen skirmishes they will have to go for Dynamite to finish off the map, and you can't get that faster than with Tradition.

Worker forst when going Liberty is really bad. Worker first in general MAY be OK, but usually isn't IMO.

Overall you're trying to argue with me but you kind of agreed, even if you tried to dig up some specific cases.
Click to expand...
Babylon's UA does not specifically benefit from population. It benefits from science specialists and you can run science specialists whether if you have a big city or not. In fact you may run more science specialists with more cities.
The counter argument is that the early academy could really benefit from an early NC which is harder to get when you are pumping out cities as liberty. Waiting for NC and delaying expansion as liberty isnt making the best out of liberty imo
 
Vitruvius said:
Babylon's UA does not specifically benefit from population. It benefits from science specialists and you can run science specialists whether if you have a big city or not. In fact you may run more science specialists with more cities.
The counter argument is that the early academy could really benefit from an early NC which is harder to get when you are pumping out cities as liberty. Waiting for NC and delaying expansion as liberty isnt making the best out of liberty imo
Click to expand...

Thats right because the only building that benefits from a large population is the library and there isnt a civilization that benefits from a large population.
 
Starting with a worker isn't a good idea unless you start on a little island. Even on a island i would start with a monument first.
 
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