New Buildings Discussion

Dancing Hoskuld · Dec 3, 2014

Faustmouse said:
You could also use the tags we have like the library service coud give "+X from all library", with X = costs of libraries. We also have a wonder (SETI) that reduces building costs of a certain building.

Negative gold is maintenance which is/was(?) a percentage. Positive gold in not a percentage. ASAIK it is only gold that acts that way.

Thunderbrd · Dec 3, 2014

Dancing Hoskuld said:
What I wrote gives the following upgrade path
Lecture Room -> Lecture Room (Free) -> Lecture Hall -> Lecture Hall (Free)

We have lots of places where things upgrade what is the confusion? I use this method a lot especially in the Myths and Stories but elsewhere also.

Either you build individual buildings in all your cities or you build a wonder that gives you a cheaper version. For that to work the cheaper version has to be an upgrade of he expensive one so that you no longer get the non free one appearing in the city build list.

Actually... I think you're right. Nevermind me on that lol Also I think you're right about both statements in your last post. That's how I remember it all being setup.

Still... your comment seems to be missing Faustmouse's point, which is that you could work these buildings to give a synergy to other buildings and thereby deepening the gameplay of their effects.

Dancing Hoskuld · Dec 3, 2014

ASFAIK it does not work with the properties like education only the commerce and yield fields.

Thunderbrd · Dec 3, 2014

True it wouldn't work (easily) for properties... probably COULD be done but it'd be interesting to figure out how.

Hydromancerx · Jan 4, 2015

@Faustmouse & MrAzure

Are either of you making buildings anymore? (Or anyone else)

We have a backlog of buildings to make plus I am sure MrAzure will want his new building ideas made into buildings too.

I have not been around as much as I was like so I wondered what the status of building makers are at the moment.

Faustmouse · Jan 4, 2015

I'm in the final 6 weeks of my master thesis and as usual there is a LOT of stuff to do...And after that I'm on vacation for a few weeks and then there is the actual writing of my thesis... So I probably won't have to much time until mid of August, and even then I'm not too sure :/

Faustmouse · Feb 12, 2016

for myself so TB's new tags get some usage :mischief:

Spoiler :

Faustmouse said:
I thought of a new "type" of buildings: Free X.

If your nation is really rich (which it is in civ usually in the later game), it could give its people something back. I thought of a set of buildings that require the palace to be build and cost a lot of maintenace. it would be best if it were something like: "2 gold per pop (empire-wide)". Therefore, those Buildings gives a lot of Happiness and probably health, science, productivity, decrease rebelliouness etc. For example:

- Free Water Supply: costs 5 gold per pop, +2 Happyness in every city, -5 Flamability in every city, + 2 health in every city.

- Free Electricity: -5 gold per pop, +2 Happyness in every city, +5% production in every city. [May get boni with Wireless Electricity etc. Also, could get more expensive with Computers, Green Civic etc or less expensive with Fusion Power]

- Free Internet: -5 gold per pop, +2 Happyness in every city, +5% research in every city. [May get boni with later techs like virtual community etc]

- Free Housing: -20 gold per pop, +5 Happyness in every city, -10 disease in every city.

- Free Education: - 15 gold per pop, +25% Education in every city, +2 happyness per city, free School, Highschool, University etc in every city.

- Free Entertainment: -10 gold per pop, +5 Happyness in every city, +10% Culture in every city, free Theater, Operahouse, Artist Gallery etc in every city.

- Free Television: -5 gold per pop, +5 Happyness in every city, -5% Culture in every city.

- Free Food Supply: -5 gold per pop, +5 Happyness in every city, +10% Food in every city, +2 Unhealthiness per City.

- Free Medical Care: -20 gold per pop, + 5 Happyness in every city, -200 Disease per turn.

- Free Transportation: -10 gold per pop, +3 Happyness in every city, -200 Air Pollution in every city, +5% Production in every city. [Increasing boni with Personal Rapidtrain, Skyroads etc]

- Free Minimum Wages: -7 gold per pop, + 10 Happyness, -1% Production.

- Free Plastic Surgey: -5 gold per pop, +10 Happyness.

- Free Personal Robots: -30 gold per pop, +10 Happyness, +20% Production [Increasing boni with Cognitive Robots etc]

- Free Childcare: Pop Boost

- Free Parental Leave: Pop Boost, -Prodcution, - Science - Culture, +

Maybe the costs are too low. They should be a hard decision to build. But for a giant map you easily end up with 50 cities with 50+ pop each, meaning for Free Education a total cost of 15*50*50= 37500 gold per turn. Plus the costs of 50 Universities, Schools etc.
Free Education or Free Entertainment offer free buildings in all cities. So it would be awesome if you could implent a new tag that makes it possible to give buildings "X gold one time cost when build".

Aaaaand this one as well:

Spoiler :

Also this:

Spoiler :

Do these tags work on a global or area level as well? (please please please)

Thunderbrd · Feb 12, 2016

Do these tags work on a global or area level as well? (please please please)

Sure if you make a building activate free autobuildings throughout the range you want them to and then apply the local tags to those autobuilds. Since we can do that already, it would be a tremendous waste of memory space to build additional tags for those layers.

Hydromancerx · May 1, 2016

Hydromancerx said:
@Faustmouse & MrAzure

Are either of you making buildings anymore? (Or anyone else)

We have a backlog of buildings to make plus I am sure MrAzure will want his new building ideas made into buildings too.

I have not been around as much as I was like so I wondered what the status of building makers are at the moment.

@Faustmouse

Did you ever make the backlog of buildings?

Faustmouse · May 1, 2016

Not me.

Hydromancerx · May 1, 2016

Faustmouse said:
Not me.

Why not? Still working on your "master thesis" after a year?

Faustmouse · May 1, 2016

No, I just got tired of civ for a while

And now I think, that adding new buildings isn't really a good thing to do; it's more important that we reduce the cluttered building lists in later eras.

Hydromancerx · Feb 26, 2017

Bumping this for when I get back to making new buildings again.

MacCoise · Mar 9, 2017

Looking forward to seeing some cool new stuff.

Just a thought, all buildings (more or less) still have a science, espionage, gold or culture, food, quality attached.

Given that there are now so more properties- stability, pollution, crime,. disease etc. I think there is scope for a whole new approach for buildings that only affect these new properties.

In other words, C2C doesn't require every building to be based around those 4 or 5 "core" properties, just a thought

Thunderbrd · Mar 9, 2017

Hydromancerx said:
Guardhouse is all the way back in Military Training. I moved the Keep Tower there instead. It was at engineering. If you want me to move it back I can.

Note Guards require Town Patrol which comes at Law Enforcement. There is nothing that comes after Town Patrol.

I was saying we should take the Guardhouse and convert it to the upgrade of Town Patrol.

Town Patrol is what replaces Town Watch:

Town Watch
Req: Dualism
+3 espionage
-3 gold
+150 Investigation
+5% City Defense
+10% Espionage Defense
Helps thwart rival spies (not sure the level)
Can turn 1 citizen into an investigator
-15 crime
Allows Town Watchmen

Town Patrol
Req: Law Enforcement
+4 espionage
-4 gold
+200 Investigation
+5% City Defense
+10% Espionage Defense
Helps thwart rival spies (not sure the level)
+1 Espionage with Divine Right
-20 Crime
Allows Patrols

The next Law Building that forms a LE unit prereq is the
Police Station:
+3 espionage
-12 gold
+40% espionage
+350 Investigation
-25% War Unhappiness
+25% Espionage Defense
Helps Thwart Rival Spies
Can turn 1 citizen into a spy
-25 Crime
Allows Police

We've been needing some steps in between (and to smooth out the gradients in those steps imo).

The Guardhouse may be that early BUT if the city isn't a capital, it requires a castle to be built... soooo it's pretty much a medieval building anyhow. I say we take it from its original position and change it to reflect the needs of the Guard to have a prerequisite building.

Currently it is:
+1 Espionage
+10% Espionage
+5% Maintenance
+5% City Defense

I say move it to Warrants and Decrees and we adjust and realign all of these buildings so that their stat progressions are more apparent:

AUDIT PROPOSAL

Lookout Post
Req: Deception
Obsolete at Dualism
+1 Espionage
-1 Gold
50 Investigation
5% City Defense
10% Espionage Defense
Helps thwart rival spies
-5 Crime
Allows Watcher

Sentry Post
Req: Conduct
Obsolete at Law Enforcement
+2 Espionage
-2 Gold <-- Was -1
100 Investigation
5% City Defense
10% Espionage Defense
Helps thwart rival spies
-10 Crime
Allows Enforcers
Replaces Lookout Post

Town Watch
Req: Dualism
Obsolete at Warrants and Decrees
+3 espionage
-3 gold
+150 Investigation
+5% City Defense
+10% Espionage Defense
Helps thwart rival spies (not sure the level)
Can turn 1 citizen into an investigator
-15 crime
Allows Town Watchmen
Replaces Sentry Post

Town Patrol
Req: Law Enforcement
Obsoletes at the tech City Guard comes in at
+4 espionage
-4 gold
+5% Espionage
+200 Investigation
+5% City Defense
+10% Espionage Defense
Helps thwart rival spies (not sure the level)
+1 Espionage with Divine Right (Note: this means we should find other techs in the era that can do this for the others)
Can turn 2 citizen into Investigator
-20 Crime
Allows Patrols

Guardhouse
Req: Warrants and Decrees
Obsoletes at Criminology
+5 Espionage
-5 Gold
+10% Espionage
+250 Investigation
+10% City Defense
+15% Espionage Defense
Helps Thwart Rival Spies
Can turn 2 citizens into Investigators
-20 Crime
Allows Guards
Replaces the Town Watch.

Guard Station
Req: Warrants and Decrees
Obsoletes at Criminology
+6 Espionage
-6 Gold
+15% Espionage
+300 Investigation
-10% War Unhappiness
+5% City Defense
+20% Espionage Defense
Helps Thwart Rival Spies
Can turn 3 citizens into Investigators
-25 Crime
Allows City Guards
Replaces Guardhouse

And the Police Station should be modified as well:
Police Station
Prereq Criminology
+7 espionage
-7 gold
+20% espionage
+350 Investigation
-25% War Unhappiness
+25% Espionage Defense
Helps Thwart Rival Spies
Can turn 4 citizens into investigators
-30 Crime
Replaces the Rennaissance LE building

Hydromancerx · Mar 10, 2017

Based on this video and the new Space mod I want to add this way at the end of the tech tree. Maybe its a wonder maybe its a regular building. It's basically "Man-Made Heaven" where everyone who has ever died in history has their consciousness saved at death and brought to the far future to live in eternity. Since its in the far future where new bodies can be grown it would not have to be in a computer like the whole mind uploading building we already have.

I am not sure what the stats would be other than you would get an insane amount of population boom! Maybe it would go at like Immortality tech or something.

Hydromancerx · Mar 10, 2017

@TB

Town Watch
Warrants and Decrees = x48

Town Patrol
Law Enforcement = x35

Lookout Post -> Sentry Post -> Town Patrol -> Town Watch

Um shouldn't those tech reqs be opposite?

Thunderbrd · Mar 10, 2017

Lookout Post(Deception)->Sentry Post(Conduct)->Town Watch(Dualism)->Town Patrol(Law Enforcement)
Town Watch should not be at Warrants and Decrees. That's where it should obsolete.
That should be the Guardhouse.

This should be how it looks afterwards:
Lookout Post
Req: Deception
Obsolete at Dualism
+1 Espionage
-1 Gold
50 Investigation
5% City Defense
10% Espionage Defense
Helps thwart rival spies
-5 Crime
Allows Watcher

Sentry Post
Req: Conduct
Obsolete at Law Enforcement
+2 Espionage
-2 Gold <-- Was -1
100 Investigation
5% City Defense
10% Espionage Defense
Helps thwart rival spies
-10 Crime
Allows Enforcers
Replaces Lookout Post

Town Watch
Req: Dualism
Obsolete at Warrants and Decrees
+3 espionage
-3 gold
+150 Investigation
+5% City Defense
+10% Espionage Defense
Helps thwart rival spies (not sure the level)
Can turn 1 citizen into an investigator
-15 crime
Allows Town Watchmen
Replaces Sentry Post

Town Patrol
Req: Law Enforcement
Obsoletes at the tech City Guard comes in at
+4 espionage
-4 gold
+5% Espionage
+200 Investigation
+5% City Defense
+10% Espionage Defense
Helps thwart rival spies (not sure the level)
+1 Espionage with Divine Right (Note: this means we should find other techs in the era that can do this for the others)
Can turn 2 citizen into Investigator
-20 Crime
Allows Patrols

Guardhouse
Req: Warrants and Decrees
Obsoletes at Criminology
+5 Espionage
-5 Gold
+10% Espionage
+250 Investigation
+10% City Defense
+15% Espionage Defense
Helps Thwart Rival Spies
Can turn 2 citizens into Investigators
-20 Crime
Allows Guards
Replaces the Town Watch.

Another should go here for the upgrade to City Guard
Replaces Guardhouse

And the Police Station should be modified as well:
Police Station
Prereq Criminology
+7 espionage
-7 gold
+10% espionage
+350 Investigation
-25% War Unhappiness
+25% Espionage Defense
Helps Thwart Rival Spies
Can turn 4 citizens into investigators
-30 Crime
Replaces the Rennaissance LE building

Hydromancerx · Mar 10, 2017

Oops! Sorry messing up the SVN kinda made my mind go loopy. :crazyeye:

So if the Guard House is moving the Warrants and Decrees should the Keep Tower get moved back to Engineering tech?

Also for these are you planning on doing the changes for this? If so they look like they could work.

Thunderbrd · Mar 10, 2017

Hydromancerx said:
So if the Guard House is moving the Warrants and Decrees should the Keep Tower get moved back to Engineering tech?

Yeah, probably best that way. It's possible another building chain review could invite some tweaks to that but I'd put it back for now.

As for who's doing the changes, I'd be indebted to anyone who can take care of those edits. I'll try to think of what we can do as far as the City Guard as well.

I'm trying very hard to get to the point where I cannot see any more bugs to resolve that have been reported so that I can really start working in earnest on implementing the xml for the new traits.

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