Why build workers in early game? Just kidnap them!

Unless stuck on an island with no other civs or CS around me, I've totally given up on building workers during the Ancient Age. I find it far more lucrative to kidnap workers from 2-3 other civs during the first 100 turns (Marathon/Immortal), depending on their close proximity on my continent.

It's easy. After finding at least 4 ruins close by (hopefully upgrading my Warrior into a Spearman), my next goal is to find CIV A. I declare war on them as soon as they leave their worker undefended. I cross my fingers that the Spearman is not killed by the onslaught that happens during the next turn (usually Warrior and city attacks), and run the hell away back to my capital with my kidnapped worker. More than likely, the worker can be put to good use by making sure my first tech is appropriate to the resources around me (i.e., Animal Husb if sheep/cows are close by). My next goal is to sue for peace with that civ pretty quickly, even if I don't get a dime in return.

Once the Spearman heals, I'm off to find CIV B, and I repeat this process. The only difference is that now I WANT to continue the war with CIV B. By simply fighting their units or letting their capital bombard you and then running off to heal, you'll constantly gain promotions, enabling your Spearman to become a super unit very early on. I usually try to get a peace treaty once my Spearman has some 5-6 promotions, and just like with CIV A, they'll usually have no warmonger feelings toward you, with a DOF usually signed just a few turns later.

In my current game, I have a French scout stuck in a corner (blocked by my Warrior and Spearman). He cannot escape. Instead of killing him, I send both my units to attack, let them (and the Scout) heal, rinse and repeat. In time, this repetitive fighting will result in two power units (I'll kill their Scout eventually), while my two workers (3 now that I've adopted Citizenship), build up my infrastructure. What's that sound? Stonehenge was just built!? SWEET!

So yes... 2 free workers and a ton of upgrades for your Spearman with no real repercussions. A much better strategy than declaring war on a CS (which usually doesn't build workers until MUCH later).

Who agrees?

You will find people split on this issue. I fall on the side of it being cheating. The way it is now, there is no doubt it is cheating. However, it is your dollars play as you want.

I find it as 'redistribution'. Each CIV on IMMORTAL has a Worker, putting you unfairly behind from turn 0. Word.

I am not here to convert you. You have your way to play, I have mine. I will just point out, you go into any game past level 4 knowing the AI has advantages.

Meh, I use the free Liberty worker. And the pyramids.

Baron2 said:

Meh, I use the free Liberty worker. And the pyramids.

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This.

The whole point of playing higher diffs is the challenge. I would much rather step down a level than use exploits, and I know I'm not alone here.

Randall_Flagg said:

You will find people split on this issue. I fall on the side of it being cheating. The way it is now, there is no doubt it is cheating. However, it is your dollars play as you want.

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I concur. If I were playing multiplayer, that would be against house rules. Do what you like, but I find it abusive.

If the AI has archers, won't this end poorly? A speaman might be able to survive a city + warrior attack, but if 1-2 archers attack as well...

Why tick off the AI? They never forget. Steal from CS, if you're so inclined.

Me, I think it's slavery. No thank you.

Wow. All this hate. I hereby declare war on all of you and kidnap your workers. You may continue to attack my Spearman, but it only makes him stronger.

Randall_Flagg said:

You will find people split on this issue. I fall on the side of it being cheating. The way it is now, there is no doubt it is cheating. However, it is your dollars play as you want.

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Hes talking about declaring war on civs, how is that cheating? It's not the cs debate

Fine, go ahead, steal a worker from a CS, and then people complain that diplomacy is bad when you have begun the "warmongering" path on the first few turns.

El Caballerion said:

Wow. All this hate. I hereby declare war on all of you and kidnap your workers. You may continue to attack my Spearman, but it only makes him stronger.

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I find this strategy a bit too luck-based for my tastes. It depends on upgrading your warrior to a spearman, which seems to only happen in about 1 in 3 games for me, even if I hit 4-5 ruins with the starting warrior, and the AI not having archers (which I often see early at higher levels), and the terrain being favorable for your escape.

DeutschDachs said:

Hes talking about declaring war on civs, how is that cheating? It's not the cs debate

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Because the AI starts with that advantage because you chose that option to move up. You found the lower levels to easy to play, and than you go around cripiling an already weak AI.

We all have our little quirks, and mine is not abusing the weak AI. IMHO, this is cheating and abusing a weak AI. You are free to disagree with me, that is ok.

I am still going to continue to play my way, just as he will continue his way. There is no wrong way to play civ 5, only your way.

Randall_Flagg said:

Because the AI starts with that advantage because you chose that option to move up. You found the lower levels to easy to play, and than you go around cripiling an already weak AI.

We all have our little quirks, and mine is not abusing the weak AI. IMHO, this is cheating and abusing a weak AI. You are free to disagree with me, that is ok.

I am still going to continue to play my way, just as he will continue his way. There is no wrong way to play civ 5, only your way.

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Yeah I agree. It's like playing chess but stealing an enemy pawn before the match begins.

The AI needs these advantages in order to compete with a human mind. However, you do nothing but taking advantage of this.
Also, farming units for XP also isn't my definition of fun. It's very tedious and time consuming and doesn't make you any better at the game.

I think the best way around this would be to create another difficulty level between EMPEROR (which I find to be too easy) and IMMORTAL (which is sometimes too difficult). I do this because I don't start off with workers and EVERY OTHER CIV does on IMMORTAL. If I started off with one too, then IMMORTAL would be perfect IMO.

I guess beelining science is also cheating because the AI is too dumb to prioritize it...

DeutschDachs said:

I guess beelining science is also cheating because the AI is too dumb to prioritize it...

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I seem to have offended you. But to be quite clear here, the OP asked what we thought. I am not here to tell you or anyone what to do sir. I could care less how he or you plays the game.


Anyways, no need to respond again, I think we each have a view that is not close.

Look, everyone, it's a game, nothing more. Play with your toys any way you please. There's no "cheating" unless there's someone actually being cheated. Have fun.

Having said that, I'm a little confused by people who boast about finding about exploits. You get to boast when you accomplish something challenging. This isn't even a novel trick by any means. Indeed, most have already figured out that CS's are much targets than actual civ's, since you can instantly make peace, and all you have to do is wait for the negative influence to fade.

As with most things, there's more than one side to the issue. Workers and (especially) work boats are simply too expensive. The former should cost about 40 or 50 hammers and the latter should cost about 30 or 40. Currently they're 70 and 50, and while that doesn't sound like much, for a baby civ that's just too much of a bog.