Palace upgrades?

Rodrig0 said:
When do they happen? So far I've guessed a few events (might be wrong):

  • Second city founded (after capital)
  • First time a city defendedr wins.
  • First time I make an alliance (not sure)

Anyone knows when do the others happen? :confused:
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I haven't even noticed those events. I always assumed it was a chance every turn depending on how well you're doing. I've never noticed any specific event that triggers it, although it happens more when I'm having a successful war.
 
I think they are due to more specific events. The first two I am sure: every time I found my second city, I earn my first palace upgrade. Might have something to do with territory controlled, as the second city gives me more, but not culture or power, because they always expand the palace regardless of what turn I'm in, which could mean more or less culture or power. The second comes soon, the first time one of my cities defends and wins an attack, either by another civ or a barbarian, doesn't matter what turn it is/how powerful I was/how many cities I had. I've also guessed another two: when you have all 8 luxuries, and the first time you eliminate another civ. I'm currently playing a game and I'm close to acquire my last luxury, I'll pay more attention. I forgot to check about the first civ I eliminated though. Anybody cares to test?
 
I often get one after losing a city to a culture flip or losing several cities to a sneak attack. I've also occasionally gotten several upgrades within 10 turns, so I doubt it is reaching some particular levels of anything. I think it is probably random, and I just remember the weird ones.
 
I have had games where I don't get an expansion for ages... literally. I often get one for the 2nd city but not consistently.

It's been my experience (confirmed by other threads on this topic) that there is no set pattern to these. it seems to be part of the PRNG system in my play.
 
I would agree that in PTW, the 2nd city appears to be an automatic trigger as well as some other events. As I just recently started playing C3C, I was surprised when I didn't receive one in my new games. As an example, in my Anarchy game in the stories forum (I am your slave . . .), Hannibal did not receive his 1st palace expansion until after I had settled three cities - and I had long since seized Amsterdam from the Dutch.

So it appears that the verison being played is part of the equation.
 
Well that's strange... so far I've noticed a couple of events that in my tests always trigger an expansion. They still *might* be a coincidence, maybe I haven't done enough tests... but the chances are small. For example in my current game I noticed I was the first to get to the industrial age, and it gave me an expansion. Maybe because I was the first to advance to the next age? Just to make sure I reloaded and stopped all research, postponing the era advance. And the palace expansion never happened. I delayed it 5 turns, and in the 6th I resumed research, and the next turn I was in the industrial age, first than anyone, and my palace expanded. Coincidence? :confused:
 
I main quesiton is, are you testing in PTW or C3C or both? In PTW I would agree - there are triggers (or at least there seem to be). But I can't say I've played a single C3C game where the 2nd city gave me a new lawn (not saying it can't, just that it hasn't so far in my experience). As I recall, that was always the case in PTW. Can't say about Vanilla because its been so long.

The difference is rather noticable though. I've been playing C3C and had a horrible turn set and suddenly the people decide it is time to build a porch. Maybe they're just trying to boost my confidence?

Advancing to a new age sounds like a good trigger. Maybe being the first to build a wonder? First to destroy a civ?
 
Raliuven said:
I main quesiton is, are you testing in PTW or C3C or both?
Click to expand...

C3C only. It's been long since I don't play PTW, so I don't remember exactly. What I've also noticed is that some times you aren't notified when people wants to expand your palace, but it might be available anyways. Some times there have been events when I'm sure I should have been given some expansions already, but I haven't... so I go check my palace view and I have more than one available. Could that be the case why some people don't get their upgrades consistently? :confused:

Anyways, I think I'll make it my quest to prove that upgrades aren't random. I'll be posting saves where there can't be any doubt. :D

Here's another save. I have an archer + settler ready to found my second city, and a barbarian next to it. View attachment 304517
Now, if I...
  • Do nothing. Barb attacks and loses = no upgrades.
  • Build city, and kill barb. Second city = 1 upgrade.
  • Build city and let barb attack. Second city + first succesful defense = 2 upgrades.
I also tried moving the pair around, letting the barbarian chase them. 8 turns later I built the city, the barbarian attacked and lost. 2 upgrades right there. :goodjob:

Also remember upgrades are acquired the next turn after the event that triggered them. If you aren't notified check the F9 screen.

Of course, if anyone has a save where they can prove any of those condition I mentioned didn't trigger an expansion, I'd like to see it, so I can cut my quest short and move on with my life :lol:
 
Very interesting. I'll see if I can dig up the Hannibal save were I founded Caseboy97's Asylum and did not receive the palace upgrade for the 2nd city.

If it is not the version, then maybe it is the difficulty? The three games I can recently recall in C3C that did not give a palace upgrade with the 2nd city were cheiften and warlord games. But you would think the lower settings would be more generous with upgrades, not less.
 
Raliuven said:
But you would think the lower settings would be more generous with upgrades, not less.
Click to expand...

Well, on sid starting next to the Germans, you are lucky to put down that second city! :lol:

This thread is a fascinating (if a bit inconsequential) read. I always assumed they happened when some random good thing happened. I'll definitely look for some triggers in my next game.
 
I'd rather shake hands with Bismark than see Monty or Shaka as my neighbors!

Okay, here are two examples for consumption. First is 2550BC. Hannibal just founded Caseyboy97's Asylum (you can see the founding date in the city view). Hit enter and no upgrade.

Second is the 1675BC save where Hannibal receives his first upgrade. There's already three cities down and the Carthaginians have conquered Amsterdam. The only thing of note that happened in 1675BC is that Elephant's Revenge destroyed a barb city and promoted to a vet. Both of these, according to my log, were new events. However, in 3050BC Elephant's Revenge killed the first barbarian with no upgrade, so that was not a new event.

That could suggest two new possible triggers - first promotion from a barb battle (could actually be multiple triggers, first promotion to vet via barb, first promotion to elite via barb) and the first time you sack a barb city, pass go and collect 25gp.

Edit:
I decided to upload the original 1675 BC save before any actions are taken - if Elephant's Revenge does not attack the barb camp, there is no upgrade.
 

Attachments

  • Hannibal of the Carthaginians, 2550 BC.SAV
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  • Hannibal of the Carthaginians, 1675 BC.SAV
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  • Hannibal of the Carthaginians, Org 1675 BC.SAV
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Raliuven said:
Okay, here are two examples for consumption. First is 2550BC. Hannibal just founded Caseyboy97's Asylum (you can see the founding date in the city view). Hit enter and no upgrade.
Click to expand...

So that concludes the 2nd city upgrade trigger, at least for all diff levels. I'll try to see how many more cities you need for an upgrade, or if it ever happens due to city founding in warlord.


Raliuven said:
The only thing of note that happened in 1675BC is that Elephant's Revenge destroyed a barb city and promoted to a vet...

That could suggest two new possible triggers - first promotion from a barb battle (could actually be multiple triggers, first promotion to vet via barb, first promotion to elite via barb) and the first time you sack a barb city, pass go and collect 25gp.
Click to expand...

I tried not attacking, instead lower research to make the 25 gold you acquire by attacking the camp, to see if the trigger was related to having more gold, maybe being the richest. But no upgrade that way. Changing the settler build to numidian? No upgrade. And if Elephant's attacks the camp some turns later, he'll destroy it, but get no promotion, and it still gives an upgrade. So it was destroying the barb camp that triggered it.

This keeps getting better! :goodjob:
 
Rodrig0 said:
So that concludes the 2nd city upgrade trigger, at least for all diff levels. I'll try to see how many more cities you need for an upgrade, or if it ever happens due to city founding in warlord.
Click to expand...

Interesting testing on the saves - didn't even think of doing that. Maybe the premiss needs tweaking. It may be possible to put together a list of events that might trigger an upgrade - even a list that suggests a better than average possibilty for certain events. The testing might drive you crazy, though. :crazyeye:

My thought regarding PTW 2nd cities always giving an upgrade were shot to heck last night. I was playing GOTM 116 and my second city did not produce an upgrade. I can't post it at the moment because the game isn't closed yet.

I know in RSG2 we got a two teired upgrade after we seized Athens from the Greek - so maybe seizing an enemy captial is one? Though Athens did have 2 wonders in it (HG & Bachs). We had already seized TGW earlier in Sparta as well, so seizing a wonder was not a first time event there.
 
Raliuven said:
I know in RSG2 we got a two teired upgrade after we seized Athens from the Greek - so maybe seizing an enemy captial is one? Though Athens did have 2 wonders in it (HG & Bachs). We had already seized TGW earlier in Sparta as well, so seizing a wonder was not a first time event there.
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In the saves you posted wans't Amsterdam also a capital? I can't check right now, but I think it was and it didn't give an upgrade when you captured it.


Raliuven said:
It may be possible to put together a list of events that might trigger an upgrade - even a list that suggests a better than average possibilty for certain events. The testing might drive you crazy, though. :crazyeye:
Click to expand...

That's precisely what I intend to do. With some more people posting and testing, we might be the first to discover how exactly palace upgrades work. I've been searching and it seems nobody has found it yet, so this forum could become famous for being the first to discover it :clap:... and we could be the lead researchers. I can see me already with three beakers under my head! :lol:
 
I never build on to the palace, so the two-tiered upgrade when taking Athens in RSG2 could have been one from during my turns and one for Athens. I vaguely remember getting an upgrade during my turns, but I'm not anywhere near sure about it.
 
Good point, Amsterdam was the capital of the Dutch, no upgrade. I was just thinking re: 2nd city, I wonder if it has something to do with when the 2nd city is founded. I don't think it would be the first 2nd city (of all Civs), but maybe there is a time limit to the trigger? So if you found the 2nd city late for some reason, no upgrade. Not exactly the best argument for an early settler, but . . . :crazyeye:

I never build on to the palace, so the two-tiered upgrade when taking Athens in RSG2 could have been one from during my turns and one for Athens. I vaguely remember getting an upgrade during my turns, but I'm not anywhere near sure about it.
Click to expand...

Ah, that could be. I'd have to check an earlier save to confirm. I usually save at the end of every turn, mostly because I'm OCD, but also because my computer is very unreliable and likes to take a break every so often. Repeatedly.
 
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