Playing an older version of the game.

TractorBoy · May 7, 2014

@psparky - that micro-mod enables two features within my DLL mod

Code:

    <!-- Fixes healing units ignoring enemy units and sleeping units under direct fire remaining asleep (v19) -->
    <Row Class="1" Name="BUGFIX_UNITS_AWAKE_IN_DANGER" Value="0"/>
    <!-- Fixes workers stopping what they are doing at any hint of danger to only when they can see an enemy unit (v19) -->
    <Row Class="1" Name="BUGFIX_WORKERS_VISIBLE_DANGER" Value="0"/>

Good stuff Pompey, this would seem to fix most of the VANILLA problems, you really should post this in the confirmed bugs section under (workers stopping work), it seems to be the only solution available to us Vanilla fans!

On your earlier post; no I didn't do a back up, so I am up the swanny!
Unfortunately for me I cannot use your mod because I post all my games to the HOF section and MODS are not allowed.

Now that I know a lot more about the game my intention was to take on some of the top science victory times, but playing a wide game is unbearable!

psparky · May 8, 2014

Sorry to disappoint but I believe the answer to my question means the mod doesn't help as the DLL referred to is for BNW only.

whoward69 · May 8, 2014

psparky said:
Sorry to disappoint but I believe the answer to my question means the mod doesn't help as the DLL referred to is for BNW only.

Yep the DLL is BNW only, but the code changes are minor and would be trivial to port to the Vanilla code base, but it would still be a mod so would invalidate the "no mods" requirement

TractorBoy · May 8, 2014

Primacide said:
I feel your pain. 'Member DOS and running Civ I without a single patch? For ten years? Ahh, thems the days. Short of some decent hacks, please give BNW a chance. I have just gone from the vanilla version that you mentioned (pre-worker bug) straight to Brave New World. It is a short adjustment, but will remind you of some of the best things about Civ IV.

The reason I held off from playing some aspects of the Vanilla game was because of the Courthouse bug which gave an unfair advantage to the player. I didn't want to fool myself when a fix was inevitable, however the fix took years to implement! No sooner was it implemented than G&K came out, at which point almost every one moved on to pastures new. Some of those guys who found a wide Deity domination game to be a piece of cake with the bug would have had a serious problem without it, but we will never know!

The reason I have no intention of playing BNW at this time, is because of an utterly ridiculous science bulb bug. From what I have read on the HOF forum, some members have stumbled across this bug without even knowing it existed. Human nature pretty well dictates that once we are aware of a game changing loophole to our advantage, then we will use it!

psparky · May 9, 2014

whoward69 said:
Yep the DLL is BNW only, but the code changes are minor and would be trivial to port to the Vanilla code base, but it would still be a mod so would invalidate the "no mods" requirement

Well, it probably wouldn't help OP (unless, is there a precedent for a bug-fix only mod to be allowed in HOF?) but there are lots of other players who find this bug a major nuisance - evidenced by the bug thread.

Do you think your changes would actually fix the bug? The best I had hoped for was that it might reduce the impact by limiting the number of tiles where the problem occurred. If it would completely fix the bug, perhaps someone might be prepared to make a mod for vanilla, if you would share the source code changes. Maybe even me, although I'm a total novice at modding.

beetle · May 9, 2014

TractorBoy said:
The reason I have no intention of playing BNW at this time, is because of an utterly ridiculous science bulb bug. From what I have read on the HOF forum, some members have stumbled across this bug without even knowing it existed. Human nature pretty well dictates that once we are aware of a game changing loophole to our advantage, then we will use it!

It is not that big a bug really. To use it, you have to avoid the whole top of the tech tree, so that gimps your game unless you are land-locked. If you want to use the exploit, just up the difficulty level to make up for that.

Chum · May 9, 2014

TractorBoy said:
The reason I have no intention of playing BNW at this time, is because of an utterly ridiculous science bulb bug. From what I have read on the HOF forum, some members have stumbled across this bug without even knowing it existed. Human nature pretty well dictates that once we are aware of a game changing loophole to our advantage, then we will use it!

Honestly, it's not that big of a deal unless you MAKE it be that big of a deal.

The people who are demonstrating how "utterly ridiculous" it is are doing very specific things in order to create the scenario where it turns into utterly ridiculous. Just think about that for a minute. We played this game for a LONG time and it was only very recently discovered that science works this way. This means that 99.9% of all games are played in manner OTHER than what will create the "game breaking" aspect of that bug.

I used it once to see it for myself. I haven't bothered again, because quite frankly, you don't need to do it in order to win, so why jump thru all the hoops required?

What I'm saying is that your argument is weak at best. BNW is very clearly the best iteration of this game, and you're missing out that by avoiding it over a bug that you have to put serious effort into in order to take advantage of. It's your choice to make, for sure, but you're being a bit pedantic about it. Obviously I can't tell you how to enjoy the game you're playing, but virtually everyone playing this game will tell you that BNW is leaps and bounds ahead of vanilla, and it's not even a close contest.

TractorBoy · May 9, 2014

beetle said:
It is not that big a bug really. To use it, you have to avoid the whole top of the tech tree, so that gimps your game unless you are land-locked. If you want to use the exploit, just up the difficulty level to make up for that.

Could you please tell me how to up the difficulty level that I play on?

Such is my weakness of character, I would find it impossible to compete against others who do use the bug without using it myself. My solution to this conundrum is to not play at all!

beetle · May 9, 2014

Are you already at Deity or are you talking about multiplayer?

I understand weakness of character as I have my own play style preferences that are holding me back. Your solution is worse than the problem, you have “gone nuclear” over a couple small things. Sure, people quit playing for lots of reasons, but the bugs you mention are some of the more trivial IMHO.

TractorBoy · May 9, 2014

Chum said:
What I'm saying is that your argument is weak at best. BNW is very clearly the best iteration of this game, and you're missing out that by avoiding it over a bug that you have to put serious effort into in order to take advantage of. It's your choice to make, for sure, but you're being a bit pedantic about it. Obviously I can't tell you how to enjoy the game you're playing, but virtually everyone playing this game will tell you that BNW is leaps and bounds ahead of vanilla, and it's not even a close contest.

Once the courthouse bug became known in the Vanilla version, I chose not to play expansive games, instead I concentrated on other areas of the game. I am aware of the science bulb bug before I have even purchased the BNW version, so I choose not to purchase the game. The Civ series of games is not something to be rushed, I have patience and time on my hands so my choice is to wait until the game is in good working order. I am not being critical of others for their preferences, merely stating my reasons for the choices that I make.

Chum · May 9, 2014

TractorBoy said:
Once the courthouse bug became known in the Vanilla version, I chose not to play expansive games, instead I concentrated on other areas of the game. I am aware of the science bulb bug before I have even purchased the BNW version, so I choose not to purchase the game. The Civ series of games is not something to be rushed, I have patience and time on my hands so my choice is to wait until the game is in good working order. I am not being critical of others for their preferences, merely stating my reasons for the choices that I make.

The game works fine. I don't think we're going to be getting any more patches or anything at this point in the game's life cycle, considering the development plans of the current franchise owners.

Honestly, you're making the science bulb out to be a bigger thing than it is. I'm positive you can already do it in vanilla, albeit to lesser effect due to the lack of scholars in residence. Are you going to stop playing altogether as a result? I doubt it. So why artificially hamper your enjoyment of the series based upon some silly self imposed rules? You're already modifying your game play around the presence of bugs. Just don't bulb 8 GS's at once. It's not that hard.

If you're talking about multiplayer, obviously it's a different scenario altogether, but I don't recall ever reading that from you. If that's your complaint, then I agree...valid indeed. But Civ is for all intents and purposes a single player game, and there shouldn't be an issue with the science overflow bug in a single player game.

TractorBoy · May 9, 2014

Chum said:
Are you going to stop playing altogether as a result? I doubt it. So why artificially hamper your enjoyment of the series based upon some silly self imposed rules?

Civ1 through to Civ5 Vanilla there was enough to keep me going to not necessitate ever buying an expansion. The expansions are nice to have but not necessary, unlike most people I never get bored with the game, each individual package has enough different challenges to last a life time. In the past I have even enjoyed playing a ten hour game that was won on turn 435, starting again from scratch (different map) and finishing one turn quicker. In essence I enjoy my own personal challenges and I am sure I am not alone!

Chum said:
You're already modifying your game play around the presence of bugs. Just don't bulb 8 GS's at once. It's not that hard.

Yes I am, but if I had read about the workers not working before I had purchased the game, then I almost certainly would not have done so. On my part, vast expanses of the Vanilla game have not been explored and never will be.

Chum · May 9, 2014

TractorBoy said:
Yes I am, but if I had read about the workers not working before I had purchased the game, then I almost certainly would not have done so. On my part, vast expanses of the Vanilla game have not been explored and never will be.

What "Workers not working" are you referring to? From this thread, it sounds like you mean workers not working as a result of an enemy unit within range of them, and you having to manually assign their orders again. Is this what you're talking about?

Because if that's the case, then holy cow man, you really are cutting off your nose to spite your face here. There's a lot of game to enjoy for such a minor inconvenience as being notified that your workers are in danger.

beetle · May 9, 2014

OP, try building just one extra unit for stacking with any worker that is too paranoid. Workers stacked with even the weakest of military units will ignore any and all threats.

TractorBoy · May 9, 2014

Chum said:
What "Workers not working" are you referring to? From this thread, it sounds like you mean workers not working as a result of an enemy unit within range of them, and you having to manually assign their orders again. Is this what you're talking about?

Because if that's the case, then holy cow man, you really are cutting off your nose to spite your face here. There's a lot of game to enjoy for such a minor inconvenience as being notified that your workers are in danger.

You are starting to piss me off, if you had read the whole thread then you would realise that this bug is a confirmed bug in the confirmed bug section.

The first thing I said when I started this thread was that I have the utmost respect for all Civ players and which version of the game they choose to play, so why don't you just give it a rest!!!

TractorBoy · May 9, 2014

beetle said:
OP, try building just one extra unit for stacking with any worker that is too paranoid. Workers stacked with even the weakest of military units will ignore any and all threats.

Some of the same applies to you as the above post, check it in the confirmed bugs section!

No, I don't play Multi player but I do play Deity at the lower echelons of the game, dictated by the bugs that have appeared since Vanilla was finalised.

Chum · May 9, 2014

TractorBoy said:
You are starting to piss me off, if you had read the whole thread then you would realise that this bug is a confirmed bug in the confirmed bug section.

The first thing I said when I started this thread was that I have the utmost respect for all Civ players and which version of the game they choose to play, so why don't you just give it a rest!!!

Ah, I see. It's a bug that's confined to the version of the game you play and you refuse to change versions of the game in order to fix the bug because, other less annoying bugs, I guess.

Well, good luck with all that. :confused:

LoneRebel · May 9, 2014

The "workers not working" bug only appears in vanilla, doesn't it? It seems to me that switching to BNW would get rid of that problem...

pvtjava · May 9, 2014

There is a setting within Civ 5 Properties that allows you to set "Do not automatically update this game." Does that just mean you have to manually update before allowed to play? I saw that no one had mentioned this, so I figured it wouldn't help. Could you not install an original disc of Vanilla, update to the point you wanted, then set to not update? I'm sure that's too simple to work.

Chum · May 9, 2014

pvtjava said:
There is a setting within Civ 5 Properties that allows you to set "Do not automatically update this game." Does that just mean you have to manually update before allowed to play? I saw that no one had mentioned this, so I figured it wouldn't help. Could you not install an original disc of Vanilla, update to the point you wanted, then set to not update? I'm sure that's too simple to work.

Steam won't install individual updates. It works in theory, but if you have, say version 1.0, Steam won't install 1.1, then 1.12, etc and give you a stopping point. It will simply update your files to the current version of the game.

There's no incremental patching possible. If you want to play the true, absolute vanilla game, then yes, that will work as long as you have the original disc, but there's no other way to do that via steam. There are other ways to do it, of course. Just not "supported" methods.

Playing an older version of the game.

Prince

King

DLL Minion

Prince

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Deity

King

Prince

Deity

Prince

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Prince

King

Deity

Prince

Prince

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Emperor

The Grey Cat

King

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