Machu Pichu

The situation
The aztecs have built Machu Pichu.
They have only one mountain and Machu Pichu is on it.
I build a City close by and culture bomb the mountain.

Outcome
The aztecs still have Machu Pichu!

Once a wonder is constructed, prerequisites no longer matter. Also, the wonder graphics don't matter for anything.

TractorBoy said:

The situation
The aztecs have built Machu Pichu.
They have only one mountain and Machu Pichu is on it.
I build a City close by and culture bomb the mountain.

Outcome
The aztecs still have Machu Pichu!

Click to expand...

Well, the graphic is on the mountain, but the wonder is tied to the particular city.

Similarly, if you culture bomb all of a city's desert/coast tiles, that doesn't mean you should get their Petra or Colossus/Great Lighthouse/Sydney Opera House....

My point is this - If you cannot build a wonder unless you have the correct natural features, then why should you be allowed to keep that wonder once those natural features belong to another player. I think the same should apply to an observatory, if we culture bomb the mountain that contains an observatory then it should belong to the new owner!

TractorBoy said:

My point is this - If you cannot build a wonder unless you have the correct natural features, then why should you be allowed to keep that wonder once those natural features belong to another player. I think the same should apply to an observatory, if we culture bomb the mountain that contains an observatory then it should belong to the new owner!

Click to expand...

Well, these forums are full of "shoulds" for this game. But, for now the game mechanic is prerequisites don't matter once the wonder (whether it's a world wonder or a natinoal wonder) or other building is built. You can sell off workshops after building Ironworks, and still keep the Ironworks. You can drop a great person on your only pastured tile and still keep your stable. You can keep your forge even if you build a fortress on your only iron mine, or the mine is pillaged by a barb or invading AI. Etc.

Requirement to build that wonder is your city must be built next to -or- within 2nd tile of the city... So, just by culture bombing it doesn't mean you gain requirements to said wonder.

Your city is not within requirements to build, while their city still is. So, that city would be the only one to obtain the benefits of it. Should have just take the city over, much easier and more fun.

TractorBoy said:

My point is this - If you cannot build a wonder unless you have the correct natural features, then why should you be allowed to keep that wonder once those natural features belong to another player. I think the same should apply to an observatory, if we culture bomb the mountain that contains an observatory then it should belong to the new owner!

Click to expand...

Because it would be really stupid and annoying if the AI could march a GG over to your territory and steal a wonder.

xun33kx said:

Requirement to build that wonder is your city must be built next to -or- within 2nd tile of the city... So, just by culture bombing it doesn't mean you gain requirements to said wonder.

Click to expand...

What school did you go to?

Moderator Action: such statements are not suitable for discussions in this forum.

xun33kx said:

Your city is not within requirements to build, while their city still is. So, that city would be the only one to obtain the benefits of it. Should have just take the city over, much easier and more fun.

Click to expand...

I think you will find that two Cities can be within two spaces of the mountain.

Arachnofiend said:

Because it would be really stupid and annoying if the AI could march a GG over to your territory and steal a wonder.

Click to expand...

If this Wonder is so important to you then why not protect the City.

I consider Machu Pichu to be the single most important Wonder of all, and I often find that the City owning it is within the confines of many mountains with a single hill aproach route, now these Cities are unattackable until the advent of Modern weaponry. You may say "well why not build it yourself", oftentimes I may have fought my way past and conquered two or three other civs before finding my first mountain. Long before I even found the Mountains I had the technology to build MP, so now I am here and I have connected all my Cities, I find a mountain, set up a City and do the maths.
Playing marathon speed.
1 - 74 turns to complete the Liberty Policy tree, get an Engineer, 7 turns to get it there 82 turns to build.
2 - Purchase watermill, purchase granary, get a worker to build a camp on that deer etc etc, so it turns out to be 96 turns. I don't have the money to Ally with any City States as well as the afore mentioned.

In this fictitional game I have bypassed alot of techs to get to currency with the sole aim of building MP, anyway I miss out by a couple of turns and my whole game plan has gone up the swanny.

Basically I have all these long roads connecting my Cities and I am not making any money, if I get MP it will make all the difference, I need to fill in those gaps with Cities, but doing that to early would have slowed down my Liberty Policy tree chase.

TractorBoy,

You are arguing a losing point here. And insulting people doesn't help (see answer to xun33kx).

You are making a suggestion that might very well be valid ("I want to gain wonder benefits by culture bombing"), but the game has different rules. Deal with it. Part of the game is making decisions to obtain certain milestones and wonders. If you do not manage to build MP but absolutely want it (I hardly find it the single most im portant wonder, but that's another debate), then obviously you have made the wrong decisions. Just because you want something, doesn't guarantee the outcome. Seems the AI had a favorable position to get to MP so you need to adapt your strategy (btw, I find it odd to base your strategy on MP when you do not even have a mountain in or close to your territory or make arrangements to get one, but again, that's another debate).

wannabewarlord said:

TractorBoy,

You are arguing a losing point here. And insulting people doesn't help (see answer to xun33kx).

Click to expand...

I started this thread with the intention of finding out what other peoples views are, I havn't slagged anyone off for saying it is a stupid idea (which they have), but I do object when someone makes a corrective type response, the insinuation of which was completely incorrect.

TractorBoy said:

My point is this - If you cannot build a wonder unless you have the correct natural features, then why should you be allowed to keep that wonder once those natural features belong to another player. I think the same should apply to an observatory, if we culture bomb the mountain that contains an observatory then it should belong to the new owner!

Click to expand...

Well, my thought was that the benefits of most of the wonders come not from the building itself, but the process of making it and the knowledge gained during the process. Yeah, I know that logic falls apart when a city containing the wonder is taken, but that's what I imagine.

Two workers don't mysteriously pop out of a Pyramid tomb (that's a little creepy). They learned new efficient techniques and "technologies" when they were building it that they can apply across your civilization.

SammyKhalifa said:

Well, my thought was that the benefits of most of the wonders come not from the building itself, but the process of making it and the knowledge gained during the process. Yeah, I know that logic falls apart when a city containing the wonder is taken, but that's what I imagine.

Two workers don't mysteriously pop out of a Pyramid tomb (that's a little creepy). They learned new efficient techniques and "technologies" when they were building it that they can apply across your civilization.

Click to expand...

Thanks Sammy, this is the type of response I was hoping for from the offset, there is alot of logic in what you say. CREEPY is exactly right, you made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

Before your response all I have had is people telling me that rules are rules and graphics are graphics and what a stupid idea it is. This didn't even start off as some mad cap idea, I didn't even express an opinion on the matter, I just stated some game play facts as they stand. Now I have an official warning for trolling, I didn't even know what trolling meant until I just a few minutes ago looked it up!
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edit - nm