Challenge-XIV-07

lymond

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While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we are running a series of ten games called the Hall of Fame Challenge Series. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings of one of the games will be counted towards the Challenge.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!
(*) Games must be played using the >> BUFFY MOD 3.19.003 <<
(*) Games to be submitted via the >> Civ IV Hall of Fame Website <<
(*) New players, please >> register << using your CFC forum name

Settings:

  • Victory Condition: Religious (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
  • Difficulty: Deity
  • Starting Era: Ancient
  • Map Size: Standard
  • Speed: Normal
  • Map Type: Great Plains
  • Required: No Tribal Villages, No Random Events
  • Must Not Be Checked: No Barbarians
  • Civ: Any
  • Opponents: Must include China (Qin Shi Huang), Egypt (Ramesses II), Germany (Bismark), India (Asoka), Japan (Tokugawa), Korea (Wang Kon)
  • Version: 3.19.003
  • Date: 1st May to 30th November 2014
Must not play as Inca.
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.
 
Both Bismarck and Ramesses II are listed as required opponents. They are two of the three most popular player leaders for religious leader diplomatic victory. We will likely get many submissions with the third leader. Was that the intention of including Bismarck and Ramesses II as opponents?

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Agree with STW. Qin Shi Huang is the obvious leader for this one. Leader choice would be a lot more interesting, if he was one of the required opponents, too.
 
Honestly, other than Ram, I was not to up on who was who with respect to RDV, since I rarely try for that victory type.

Since it is so early in the competition, and a couple of renown vets have chimed in on the subject, I will add in Señor Huang. I'd like to replace him with one of the existing opponents to keep them at the standard 6, as I'd like to leave the # of opponents up to the player.

Please suggest who you would take out sometime today, if possible. Otherwise, I will make the decision late this evening.

A Note any HOFers planning to attempt this Challenge soon, please consider it on hold until I update the OP and HOF Challenge table. I will post again when it is a go.
 
I suggest replacing Brennus with Qin Shi Huang. Then everyone can clearly see that the first three opponents are the most popular RLDV player leaders and will need to pick a second tier leader (from among other industrious leaders no doubt). Also, Brennus' favorite civic is organized religion and his removal will likely make this game a bit more challenging.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Your wish is my command. I hope to actually see you compete in some challenges this time around, Wu.

To everyone: Challenge 7 has been updated. You can now consider this Challenge reopened.
 
I used to be quite active around the HoF a few years ago. Then I stopped playing CIV pretty much completely. But this new Challenge has sparked a bit of my interest, so we'll see how long I can keep it up!

I started the ball rolling with a very beatable victory date for that well known religious leader - Stalin!
 
I used to be quite active around the HoF a few years ago. Then I stopped playing CIV pretty much completely. But this new Challenge has sparked a bit of my interest, so we'll see how long I can keep it up!

I started the ball rolling with a very beatable victory date for that well known religious leader - Stalin!

Great to have you back!!! Enjoy! :)
 
Great to have you back!!! Enjoy! :)
Thank you!


And ... well, I used to enjoy the discussions that built around the games that were in progress, so I'll add my own thoughts on this first attempt.

I'm assuming that anyone reading this is fully aware of the basic strategy for a religious victory (APDV), so I won't reiterate all that such luminaries as Sun Tzu Wu have written more clearly and in greater detail than I ever could anyway. I must mention my own mentor - Misotu - who was the one who encouraged me to take on Deity the first time. It was her notes on religious victories that I went back to here to refresh my memory.

Leader
I chose Stalin, as he has the Industrious trait which helps with building the wonders, and he also starts with a scout, and you need to find all of the other civs as fast as possible.

AI
I added 3 to the given list of AI. Hattie, Zara and Mansa. I think that these can all be brought up to a good positive attitude towards you relatively easily.

Start
I wanted a start location with some commerce, good food and hills. I had to settle for a spot with gems, corn, cows and plains hills, but only 1 tree anywhere nearby, which wasn't ideal.

Early Strategy
I thought it unlikely that I could take Theology from the Oracle without missing out on the Oracle entirely, so I took the alternative and shorter research route of getting Code of Laws & Confucianism from the Oracle, and then running a Priest in order to generate a Gt Prophet in time to pop Theology & Christianity.

Diplomacy
It settled naturally into place that Toku was the bad guy that everyone hated, and to a lesser extend Qin. So I was able to join the herd, siding with everyone else and not minding if I was very unpopular with Toku and Qin, as they were never going to vote for me anyway.

I joined in wars against Toku, which increased my popularity with several AI, and this upset nobody but Qin. It was a small risk, since Toku was not far from me, but Zara was between us and I ensured Zara and Toku were at war. I was never attacked.

There was a bonus in having Toku relatively close by: Christianity spread to him naturally, so I didn't have to worry about his normal 'closed borders' approach.

Endgame
I had finished the AP at 525BC, but hadn't succeeded in spreading Christianity to all until 0 AD. I also still had problems getting the vote, as my best friends didn't have enough votes yet, and some were just not friendly enough yet.

This phase really dragged, and I thought I was going to have to give up (The later it gets, the harder it is to bring attitudes up through tech trades, as you have been left behind and nobody wants your tech any more)

Finally, Bismarck asked me to convert to the world's most popular religion - Hinduism - just as the AP vote came up. I went for it, knowing that this would also have alienated a couple of my friends who were running Buddhism or Judaism. But I think it helped. I got the vote.

I still think this is a pretty bad date, that most will beat. I may have another go. We'll see. :)
 
I just tried this one and went straight for the oracle to grab Theology and the Apostolic Palace ASAP.
Gandhi however built the oracle in 2400 BC (!), when I had just started building it for 2 turns and still needed Poly+Monotheism+some turns writing. Wow.
Is this normal on diety? I have zero experience with that level, usually immortal is tough enough.
 
Your wish is my command. I hope to actually see you compete in some challenges this time around, Wu.

I'm playing Civ IV HOF Challenge Series XIII right now. Maybe I will play Challenge Series XIV when XIII has ended (September 1st).

Sun Tzu Wu
 
I just tried this one and went straight for the oracle to grab Theology and the Apostolic Palace ASAP.
Gandhi however built the oracle in 2400 BC (!), when I had just started building it for 2 turns and still needed Poly+Monotheism+some turns writing. Wow.
Is this normal on diety? I have zero experience with that level, usually immortal is tough enough.

Some AI - Gandhi is one of them - will go for the religious tech and The Oracle very early, and on Deity that does mean early! Give him marble and he is very hard to beat.
I tried to avoid AI with religious flavours, but of course we can't change the ones we are given in this game.
Be prepared to start over if it turns out one of the AI bee-lines Oracle. That's all I can suggest, apart from being ruthless in your pursuit of it!
 
Thanks! This time I played without Gandhi and managed to build the oracle myself. In the end I just couldn't spread religion to Tokugawa. Everybody else voted for me. All I could do was gift techs, but this wouldn't let him open borders... If this wasn't Great Plains one could do the "gift wounded caravel" trick, but unfortunately it IS Great Plains... :crazyeye:
 
There's always the 'Found a tiny city right by his borders, spread religion to it and then gift him the city' trick
 
:goodjob:
I thought that was not allowed, but I checked the rules again and it seems if you declare war first and then gift the city in a peace deal you're fine... nice!
 
Actually, you don't need to gift the city in the peace deal to gift the city. What's banned is gifting a city to an AI while you are at war with the AI.
 
There's always the 'Found a tiny city right by his borders, spread religion to it and then gift him the city' trick

Use the above either when you can't get open borders or you want to spread TAP religion to a small city, but the AI has only larger ones.

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Oh wow, this time Ramesses got Theology before me, so I was a bit nervous pressing the end turn button while chopping the Apostolic Palace.
Then, 750BC: Ramesses builds Hagia Sophia. Phew! He chose the other wonder. I'm lucky.
Next turn, 775BC: Ramesses builds Hanging Gardens and Apostolic Palace. Just because he can!

I got owned by Super-Ramesses.
 

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After five or six attempts I finally did it. I learned a lot about diplomacy in these games. Man, that was tough. Whenever I came close to winning everything fell apart. Friends changing into Free religion and couldn't be bribed back to OR before the vote even if spiritual, wars that led to somebody losing his only AP religion city, I've seen all of it.
It that last game I was close to quitting too. Tokugawa had lost his AP city in a war, but that's why I had settled another backup-gift-city in the middle of everybody. So I thought it would be clever to gift it to him. What I got was -4 "You traded with our worst enemy" from all my friends. And the city was immediately taken from Toku again.
But eventually, a few hundred years later Toku became Bismarck's vassal and opened borders while I had built up relations with my top-voters again. My first Deity win! Albeit with the cheesy victory type. I can not imagine what it must be like to play conquest with these settings...

I think, Louis XIV was a very good choice as a leader. IND of course speeds up the Palace while CRE was nice to hold up cultural borders.
I used Confucianism from the Oracle as AP religion because in contrast to Christianity I had already built the temple for the priest slot. Instead of a scientist I went for a second prophet to solve money issues with a shrine. So in the end - left behind techwise - I could at least bribe and have them change civics with money.
Also, I must say that cows on floodplains is one hell of a tile.
 
Congratulations on your first Deity win, Qactus!

...and on making it to the top of the Challenge leaderboard. Enjoy the moment!
 
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