Issues with Ideologies

I really like a lot about the new ideologies.

That said, it feels frustratingly incomplete. This is because it doesn't feel like they are a part of the strategic decisions of the game.

You choose your ideology, and a variety of factors may affect this decisions, but after that, you're done. Your ideology is set and you plow forward. Getting pressured? get more culture/tourism, or smash that other civ against the rocks.

I would like to see something like:

- the ability to get other civs to switch ideology in the diplomacy screen
- an ability to pursuade other civs to pick your ideology when they are first choosing one
- perhaps City States could have ideologies, that had a minor impact on rate of influence deterioration, and global influence for ideologies

The ideology system has a Cold War feel to it, where global powers formed large alliances. But these alliances were steeped in diplomacy and playing smaller powers off of eachother, in Civ these smaller powers are city states.

Does anyone else feel like the ideology system is underwhelming? Maybe this ultimately ties into similar feelings people have about tourism. If tourism was made more dynamic, ideology influence would naturally follow.

I noticed a few issues too where I was first to get an ideology and then the ai with high tourism gets a different ideology and I get a -10 happiness penalty. Idk how ai got so cculturally advanced so I had to stop it and attack. No other ai adopted my ideology and I ended up making more tourism than the rival ai I dow'd. I still had the -10 happiness penalty and had to completely conquer the civilization to make the penalty go away. I couldn't get any civilization to change their ideology to mine even if I ended up as most influential.

I would definitely like to see CS having an ideology... however, instead of slower decay, I'd like to see that tied into gifts and election rigging (giving less influence if you are of a different ideology)

That then could then tie into coups. (coups would not have as much range in the 'swap influence'... but they would have the additional benefit of swapping the CS ideology to yours)

I don't think it's believable to change one's ideology diplomatically (can you picture Stalin adopting capitalism after receiving a fruit basket from Churchill?). But certainly it should be an option for a peace treaty. That would be historical and interesting.

Well, you can sort of force people to change by attacking them and pillaging all their luxuries. No guarantee it'll be to yours, though.

HerrDoktor said:

I don't think it's believable to change one's ideology diplomatically (can you picture Stalin adopting capitalism after receiving a fruit basket from Churchill?). But certainly it should be an option for a peace treaty. That would be historical and interesting.

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yeah, I would assume the cost would be really really high diplomatically. But that said, I could see a South American country changing to capatilism becuase of massive economic support from the U.S.

But my main issue with it is if I fight a war against an ideological rival, and am winning, and they offer peace, I should be able to make them swith ideologies as the cost for peace.

reddishrecue said:

I noticed a few issues too where I was first to get an ideology and then the ai with high tourism gets a different ideology and I get a -10 happiness penalty. Idk how ai got so cculturally advanced so I had to stop it and attack. No other ai adopted my ideology and I ended up making more tourism than the rival ai I dow'd. I still had the -10 happiness penalty and had to completely conquer the civilization to make the penalty go away. I couldn't get any civilization to change their ideology to mine even if I ended up as most influential.

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I would bet that the AI went order. Order will get the most all-around happiness. Yes, autocracy will get more but that requires building useless barracks in cities that will never build military. Anyways, because of all the excess happiness, it's very difficult to actually pressure an order civ unless they have 20+ cities, very low culture, or you're already popular or better.

Also, it's quite easy to get a lot of culture early-on and all victory types can benefit greatly from lots of culture. But basically, mosques+pagodas are the way to go. It'll double your culture output a good 50 turns before archeology comes into play. Also, a situational pantheon comes to mind as well. Sacred path, two worked jungle tiles, and a monument will double culture output in the early game. That can be done on turn 50 and all that added up culture matters (just like how all that early tourism matters).

Snuffleupagus said:

yeah, I would assume the cost would be really really high diplomatically. But that said, I could see a South American country changing to capatilism becuase of massive economic support from the U.S.

But my main issue with it is if I fight a war against an ideological rival, and am winning, and they offer peace, I should be able to make them swith ideologies as the cost for peace.

Click to expand...

Well, those were military coups. That would make an interesting option for spies, force your rivals to change if they are in a revolutionary wave.