Resource depletion

Well, is there anyone besides me using Resources Depletion BUG Option? I think it's interesting and fun, especially when you have to reach for anyone else's resources (either by trade or war) because yours have been exhausted. And this feature also makes mines deplete when there are no resources under it, so that you need to replace that mine with something else, for example a windmill (you can't build a mine over a depleted mine). I've seen two problems with this feature: first, it happens from time to time that multiple mines of the same resource gets depleted in the same turn (still, even when this happened - very seldom - to me I found it fun, it was just one more management problem to solve), and anyway it doesn't happen every time; second, I think mines get depleted much more often than new ones are discovered, but this is a matter of balance I wanted to address.
Moreover, I think resources like oil should also get depleted on the long run.
Another problem found by Afforess is that it's a memory consuming feature. Nonetheless, I'd like it to remain an option if possible. Opinions?

Like Afforess said I think it's incompatible with Civilization IV type game because of timescale.

Also, if there's to be depletion, I think how resources are discovered, used, and lost should be overhauled to match better to that option or it'd be plain weird mechanic. For example, in the current game, one resource is enough to supply entire connected nation. If there's depletion, then there should be a way to end "whole" nation being supplied until advanced transportation come along. That's just one example why it's better to ax this option.

My coin .

os79 said:

Like Afforess said I think it's incompatible with Civilization IV type game because of timescale.

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Why would it be so?
There's plenty of depleted coal/iron/whatever mines... so a mine getting depleted from time to time shouldn't be a problem to me. Same for oil resources. I really don't get this problem.
I think Afforess hinted at Civ5 resource system; I've never actually played Civ5 but I think multiple sources of the same resource there mean more production or something like that; I don't know if something like that can be imported in Civ4 or if it's worthy doing it, but right now I think Resource Depletion is the closest thing we have to that system. Just to make an example; I've experienced a couple of times over hundreds of game a total loss of resources (3 stone quarries gone in 1 turn): now if I have more stone (or iron, or whatever) resources, I just build enough mines/quarries that I need for my economy/army or for trading. So that should ever a mine get depleted, I can build a new one on the spare resource. Simple, isn't it?

45°38'N-13°47'E;13393252 said:

Why would it be so?
There's plenty of depleted coal/iron/whatever mines... so a mine getting depleted from time to time shouldn't be a problem to me. Same for oil resources. I really don't get this problem.
I think Afforess hinted at Civ5 resource system; I've never actually played Civ5 but I think multiple sources of the same resource there mean more production or something like that; I don't know if something like that can be imported in Civ4 or if it's worthy doing it, but right now I think Resource Depletion is the closest thing we have to that system. Just to make an example; I've experienced a couple of times over hundreds of game a total loss of resources (3 stone quarries gone in 1 turn): now if I have more stone (or iron, or whatever) resources, I just build enough mines/quarries that I need for my economy/army or for trading. So that should ever a mine get depleted, I can build a new one on the spare resource. Simple, isn't it?

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Better if one copy of resource get depleted at a time. If not for realism, then for gameplay reason. Just my opinion .

os79 said:

Better if one copy of resource get depleted at a time. If not for realism, then for gameplay reason. Just my opinion .

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This is how it usually works. From time to time, more than one gets depleted and this is a bug. But I think this can be solved, if we want to keep RD. If we're going down different roads as Afforess is hinting, it's ok to me too.

I don't use it because I don't like it.
I don't like it because I don't have any control over it.
A warning and 2 choises before the sudden depletion would be nice.

Sir, our mine may deplete soon, if we continue mining like this.

• Decrease mining work. (-2 in mine)
• Continue mining. (50% chance that the mine is depleted)

Ofcourse the numbers are just rundom.
But with such a mechanism I would use it.

So I suppose you also don't use random events. A mine getting destroyed by an earthquake can happen. Same for a theater burning in a city or a factory lost by accident.

45°38'N-13°47'E;13395189 said:

So I suppose you also don't use random events. A mine getting destroyed by an earthquake can happen. Same for a theater burning in a city or a factory lost by accident.

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But you can rebuild every one of those. Can you re-mine a depleted mine?

JosEPh

JosEPh_II said:

But you can rebuild every one of those. Can you re-mine a depleted mine?

JosEPh

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Of course not (although technically you can now), but you can build something else.

45°38'N-13°47'E;13393252 said:

I don't know if something like that can be imported in Civ4 or if it's worthy doing it, but right now I think Resource Depletion is the closest thing we have to that system.

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I agree and there's is no point in removing an optional feature.
Surely it would be useful if we knew the mechanism of RD: the depletion occurs at a random time or at a time when you have "used" the resource enough?

Actually there might be memory saving removing it, I understood even for those not using it if I'm not mistaken. And yes, at the moment it's random, but connecting it with actual resource usage is something I'd like to do, although I'm not sure it's possible.

There is a mouse over or Depletion of resources, and it say's its based on Consumption levels.

So if you have a high comsumption of only 1 or 2 mines, they will run out very quickly.

High consumption, would be, I assume, building lots of Armourments (swords, pikes,spear, cannon tanks etc) for say Iron.

Coal, would be Multiple coal power plants, all buring coal, Railroads buring coal in the steam engines, etc.

Oil, Diesel shipping, oil power plants, blah blah.

Basically, the more war mongering you do, the more you deplete an finite resource.

Stone for paved roads. etc.

Honestly I feel this entire subject is not really worth the effort in discussion. The memory savings are there, but they are very small (at most, 5MB, on a gigantic map). I am going to revert my changes, and let the whole subject drop. Our collective effort would be best served in working on the balancing & civic changes than this debate.

Thank you Afforess.
IPEX, although the tooltip saying so, I'm not sure that part works, I'll have to check again but I don't recall the code working like that

45°38'N-13°47'E;13395189 said:

So I suppose you also don't use random events. A mine getting destroyed by an earthquake can happen. Same for a theater burning in a city or a factory lost by accident.

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Ehhh...
No, I am using random events. That's something I never turn off.

Why people start supposing how others play the game, when a feature they like is critisized.

But you know what? I'll give it a second try.
I'm in the mid-industrial era (eternety, gigantic).
Will report my experriences...

I really like the idea of depleting resources, but having all of your sources from the same resource going depleted on the same turn without prior warning is a bit harsh. I also think you should get a warning well beforehand, so that you have time to find alternate sources of that resource.

I like Sogroon's idea :

A warning and 2 choises before the sudden depletion would be nice.

Sir, our mine may deplete soon, if we continue mining like this.

Decrease mining work. (-2 in mine)
Continue mining. (50% chance that the mine is depleted)

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The way I see resource depletion working is quite simple actually:

After having been worked for X turns (*) each source of non-renewable resource (**) is subject to depletion.
X +1 turn: 1% chance of depletion
X + 2 turns: 2% chance of depletion
X + 3 turns: 3% chance of depletion...

and so on, making depletion ineluctable. When depletion effectively hits, the player would first get a message : "Our source of [said resource] near [city's name] will be depleted in 10 turns", leaving room for the player to adjust his strategy.

Random events giving you new source of resource could be more frequent, and there could be new events where new veins of said resource are found in a once depleted source.

Additionnaly, food resources, as well as elephants, horses, or "plant" resources (wine, bananas, silk, sugar...) could completely disappear when tile is hit by global warming.

(*) To be determined by game speed and lateness of resource's appearance on the map (oil would get fewer turns of exploitation than copper)

(**) stone, marble, gold, silver, gems, copper, iron, coal, oil, aluminium, uranium...

*

Well, I think I've found a reason why people have different feelings about Resource Depletion balancing. I've found in the code

Code:

iDepletionOdds *= GC.getGameSpeedInfo(GC.getGameINLINE().getGameSpeedType()).getResearchPercent();

it looks to me that chances of depletion are connected with ResearchPercent parameter which increases for slower gamespeeds. Which in turns makes mines deplete faster on slower gamespeed, which is clearly wrong. I haven't actually checked the code completely but if the name of the variable means what I think it means, this could probably be the problem.

Edit: Nevermind, I've checked the code and it's correct.

IPEX-731BA5DD06 said:

There is a mouse over or Depletion of resources, and it say's its based on Consumption levels.

So if you have a high comsumption of only 1 or 2 mines, they will run out very quickly.

High consumption, would be, I assume, building lots of Armourments (swords, pikes,spear, cannon tanks etc) for say Iron.

Coal, would be Multiple coal power plants, all buring coal, Railroads buring coal in the steam engines, etc.

Oil, Diesel shipping, oil power plants, blah blah.

Basically, the more war mongering you do, the more you deplete an finite resource.

Stone for paved roads. etc.

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I stand corrected, I've checked the code and it looks like it works like this. The only problem there might be, but I still need to test, is the frequency of depletion.

I had this idea for Civ 5 but had no idea how to implement it. Not sure if this is possible (my memory of Civ 4 mechanics is a bit fuzzy) but what if instead of "building the mine" the worker is actually mining. Then after so many turns the worker is done and you receive a finite quantity of the resource or you only get the resource while the mining is taking place. The mine graphic will remain invisible representing a depleted mine or the graphic remains so that the worker can deconstruct it for another improvement.