Extra Traits for C2C

Ok here is my traits reworked. I don't consider them final, or perfect :mischief:
But should be a good first draft for you guys. Alternatively you could just put it as a modmod up to you. Ill post it on svn thread.

A few building changes might not be obvious
+50% Slave Market for progressist

Politician
POLIS_COUNCIL +100%

Anti-clerical
+1 :mad: for monastaries

Cruel
+100% monument of dictator

Foreign - (this trait might need a nerf thinking about it.)
FREE PORT +100% (requires civic free market)

Hunter gatherer
double production granary and modern granary
 
Sgtslick said:
Hunter gatherer
double production granary and modern granary
Click to expand...
This doesn't really make much sense thematically. Granaries are associated with agriculture, not a hunter-gatherer lifestyle.

Oh, that's twice as long, not twice as fast, isn't it?

Not going to have a huge effect really, since after the first few granaries you'll get free ones in the rest of your cities anyway.
 
MaXimillionZero said:
This doesn't really make much sense thematically. Granaries are associated with agriculture, not a hunter-gatherer lifestyle.

Oh, that's twice as long, not twice as fast, isn't it?

Not going to have a huge effect really, since after the first few granaries you'll get free ones in the rest of your cities anyway.
Click to expand...

Double the time to create the strategic grain reserve too though. Since you tend to build that when you have few cities that's actually quite a nasty penalty
 
Made a few additional changes/fixes to my traits
Spoiler :

Populist:
Additional -1 health
deleted great general negative
changed extra yield threshold to 8 food needed for +1
now gets +60% for food trade yield and -20% commerce trade.
Still gets +20% for upkeepmodifier


Revolutionary:
changed <iRevIdxHolyCityBad>3</iRevIdxHolyCityBad> to
<iRevIdxHolyCityBad>-3</iRevIdxHolyCityBad> which is the negative version **I think**
changed from -10% gold to -15

Anti Clerical
changed <iRevIdxHolyCityBad>4</iRevIdxHolyCityBad> to
<iRevIdxHolyCityBad>-4</iRevIdxHolyCityBad> which is the negative version **I think**
+100% to revolution penalty for non-state religion reduced to +40%

HunterGather reworked:
deleted greatgeneral penalty
trade modifier -80% for food
-60% granary production
health +1
+1 food for 7 food square.
still -20% culture

Changed Mao's 3rd trait to cruel, he's imaxanarchy3 for revolutionary was redundant since he has politician trait

{ All Italian leaders still need 3rd trait }

attached here
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11608594&postcount=1
 
Looking at Frederick, don't know if it has been change recently, but he has 2 traits (the last I checked) that gave him combat I for his melee units, I don't know if the traits have been edited or that Frederick's traits have been changed but I don't if this is truly working as intended.
 
Has nothing to do with my new traits, must be old. My changes aren't in the svn - see the above link for the new traits mate.
This is Frederick.
<TraitType>TRAIT_PROGRESSIST</TraitType>
<TraitType>TRAIT_AGGRESSIVE</TraitType>
<TraitType>TRAIT_TEMPERAMENTAL</TraitType>
___________________________________

Progressist trait needs an additional bonus I think, they got +50% faster slave market, +10% wonder production, and COMBAT1 for GUN, HITECH, ASSAULT units. What else should they get?
How about <bUpgradeAnywhere>1</bUpgradeAnywhere> ? That sounds fitting. This may make it a bit too strong though.. maybe +10% xp needed for promotions as well.. What you think?
 
Sgtslick said:
Has nothing to do with my new traits, must be old. My changes aren't in the svn - see the above link for the new traits mate.
This is Frederick.
<TraitType>TRAIT_PROGRESSIST</TraitType>
<TraitType>TRAIT_AGGRESSIVE</TraitType>
<TraitType>TRAIT_TEMPERAMENTAL</TraitType>
___________________________________

Progressist trait needs an additional bonus I think, they got +50% faster slave market, +10% wonder production, and COMBAT1 for GUN, HITECH, ASSAULT units. What else should they get?
How about <bUpgradeAnywhere>1</bUpgradeAnywhere> ? That sounds fitting. This may make it a bit too strong though.. maybe +10% xp needed for promotions as well.. What you think?
Click to expand...

I think those are in the SVN, unless you've done something more recent as I'm seeing Frederick with those 3 traits.

Both Agressive and Progressist give Combat I to Gunpowder, Hi-Tech and Assault Mech units. (The only difference is that Agressive gives Combat I to Melee units as well)

I just did't know if this was intended or not.
 
sorry misunderstood. changed him now. and I didn't realise it had actually gone into svn so i've submitted an updated version for them to put in instead.
 
Sgtslick said:
sorry misunderstood. changed him now. and I didn't realise it had actually gone into svn so i've submitted an updated version for them to put in instead.
Click to expand...

No worries, to your credit, it IS in the SVN and I look forward to this system. (One of my favourite things from my short time playin Realism Invictus a while back was the third trait system)

Also, from a quick glance, 'seafaring' looks interesting now and playing as Ragnar doesn't seem quite as bad.
 
Sgtslick said:
sorry misunderstood. changed him now. and I didn't realise it had actually gone into svn so i've submitted an updated version for them to put in instead.
Click to expand...

if you did, it MUST go in this thread, thank you .. .??:hmm:
 
You haven't responded to any of my questions and this is the only feedback you have given me.

strategyonly said:
@SgtSlick:
I went through some of your suggested traits you sent, BUT am missing three of them?? Arrogant, Semi-Civilized, and Barbarian? Any reason you left those off??
Click to expand...
Then you put the unfinished version in the svn without saying anything and left out half the leaders.
I put the my finalised traits in the svn thread to avoid any further confusion and from there you can all see it and do what you like with it.
 
Ill keep a list of changes that the c2c team want to do and the good suggestions made by people including myself :)

PROPOSED TRAIT AMENDMENTS

  • Redundant & inappropriate traits. Such as traits that don't 'fit' the leader. Also traits that have no real bonus/penalty because its already in a trait that that leader has.
    This means anyone with a BARBARIC trait cannot be AGGRESSIVE as well because this would make the COMBAT1 for MELEE units redundant.
    -Chief Head Hunter
    -Genghis Khan
    -Ragnar
    -Shaka
  • PROGRESSIST - How do people feel about the upgrade outside of borders ability for this trait. I think it is extremely powerful. However I like it a lot. This trait needs to be nerfed I think.
    Such as change <iLevelExperienceModifier>15</iLevelExperienceModifier> to
    <iLevelExperienceModifier>35</iLevelExperienceModifier>
    Also maybe get rid of the Combat1 for guns so only ASSAULT MECH and HITECH ? Keep in mind AGGRESSIVE TRAIT also gets combat1 for these units so these traits are therefore mutually exclusive ( thus Frederick has to be changed - thanks Acularius :) )
  • Even out the spread of traits, some traits have lots of leaders and some only have very few, such as PROGRESSIST which only has FREDERICK. MEGALOMANIAC has 10 leaders, revolutionary has 5 for instance. DECEIVER has 3, HUMANITARIAN has 4, SCIENTIFIC has only MANSA MUSA. AGGRESSIVE HAS 23.
  • AGGRESSIVE EXCESSIVE combo could be too strong I think, free COMBAT1 + CITY_RAIDER1 for all melee units out of the box is kinda OP. This is a good way to trim down aggressive leaders and switch them to deciever, humanitarian, scientific etc.
    -ATTILA
    -BOUDICA
    -HEKE
    -SITTING BULL     ( he has protective, nomad, excessive - each giving him free promotions- currently one of the best leaders in the game therefore in my opinion. *[Change nomad to humanitarian maybe]*
  • Rewrite trait descriptions- although I like the current descriptions they sometimes don't reflect the bonus/penalty. Also none of the building modifiers are listed. Although there aren't that many, players need this valuable info.
  • SCHEMER trait might need adjusting, it wasn't in the civ4traitinfos.xml so I haven't touched it/thought about it. Thoughts?
  • Update new leaders such as Italian leaders.
  • POLITICIAN trait has <fRevIdxGoodReligionMod>0.5</fRevIdxGoodReligionMod>
    Which is a +50% modifier to having your state religion in the city. It also get +100% production for POLIS COUNCIL. These aren't listed.
    Despite these two things, this trait seems a little bare im not sure.
  • REVOLUTIONARY the max anarchy 3 is too strong I think. Since overall these new traits are supposed to be negative albeit sometimes marginally, I think this facet of the trait (max anarchy 3) is kinda too good. I think subtract the free LOYAL promotion for spies. Also make the -1 gold per city -2 ??
  • MEGALOMANIAC the :gold:+4% :science: +3% and -20% culture doesn't really 'fit' the trait, I also feel this is too strong. +10% to civic upkeep maybe?
  • EXPANSIVE +4 health, maybe reduce to +3? Also Industrious +35% -> +40%? Was thinking scientific deserve +2% science to make it 12%?
  • BARBARIC needs a slight nerf I think, such as a penalty when building universities -30% production and theatres -25%.


Thats it for now but as things come up ill adjust the list.
 
Although I think the traits can be tweaked a bit more, nothing really springs to mind*. I think the above post looks good for the most part.

*and my personal preferences probably aren't the same as most others anyway
 
Ok I have stayed out of this converstion for awhile but I feel like I should post.

1. Negative traits should be just that, negative. They should not give ANY bonus of any kind.

2. The negative factors do not have to be super negative, just enough to balance out some of the positive traits.

I really hate to post complains without examples for a solution so I will leave it up to you guys to figure out how to balance that. I think they are good ideas for traits just not the best stats for their implementation.
 
These traits/LH applications seem pretty unpolished atm, should we not include them for the V24 release? SO, do you have some changes that would make these traits release-worthy?
 
Direct your feedback towards my list of proposed changes, add suggestions to this list. Not much point giving me general comments.
 
Sgtslick said:
Direct your feedback towards my list of proposed changes, add suggestions to this list. Not much point giving me general comments.
Click to expand...

Here are the changes I think would be good. Megalomaniac needs a nerf, having + to gold and science on a negative trait is IMO a bad idea. I think that giving Megalomaniac +10% Civic Upkeep, +10% Maintainence, and +2% Science would be more balanced. Also, as you said, more LHs need to be adjusted, as there are severe trait imbalances.
 
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