Advices for my first Deity Game

Something is very very wrong here ... Did that 5th city delayed me, was it the new rules on RA (and their low number), the lack of decent FPT or the arts funding, but this looks like a possible t300 win ...

Seems far too slow for the great start I had, after T206 plastics I didn't really expect that to last 100 more turns.

With some optimization, shaved 20 turns. So we got T280 SV (fastest from the three games). There is room for improvement for sure.

That 5th city did not slow me down it seems, but didn't improve the science by a lot too - it was producing around 12% from my total science. But it was the main source of income so I guess it was worth it ...

Lampang hurt me a bit, as it was using some good food tiles, that had to be in the capital. But without it the 5th city would not grow, so I dunno. Things would be a bit different, if Theodora had not placed that stupid city next to my cap. I'd have several more good tiles to work ...

One major mistake I did (but noticed way too late), was that I had not built National Epic. I had only one guild in the capital, but I guess I'd have one more GS pop if I had it.

Proposing Arts funding made everyone love me, but without it I should've had even more GS to bulb. But a war would slow me down for sure. Still thinking it was the right choise.


Thinking of what to play next. Probably Maya or Sweden

Well if you had a tendency to make a lot of RA before patching then yes it was nerfed to the ground.

Other than that yes Lampang quickly appeared like your weakest city to me.

Yeah, having a lot of RA's was helping get faster times. But now when I got like 2 turns worth of science off someone who was close to me on techs, it seems to not be worth doing these at all when you are tech leader.

I rolled a new map. It contains very nice capital spot, a lot of wine and not much else.
How would you settle the spot?

I think about settling the red dots:

1) The sheep on hill will give me coastal city, 2 fish, deer horses, a lot of wine and 2 plains farms on a lake.
2) The hill next to the stones - It will have truffles, maybe a caw, some grassland, some forest to chop, some wines, some lake farms. Overall seems not that bad.

Honorable mention (the white dot) - Its more or less same, but will share far too many tiles with the capital, and if I go for it, I don't really see a good spot for 4th city, that not far away from everything.


After that is the more tricky part. Not that obvious candidates:

1) Blue dot - this one seems good as its surrounded by rivers. Even has sugar in the 5th ring if it ever comes to that.
2) Yellow dot - seems a bit worse, but will be coastal.
3) Green dot - worse of the 3, but with copper in the 3rd, and sugar in the 4th ring.

I need to scout to the south to see if thats peninsula, or the continent continues. If its a small peninsula, I could settle blue or yellow + another late city on it (if it has something in addition to the sugar ofc).

I went tradition, stole 2 workers (1 from Siam, 1 from Vilnius (and kept the war with Vilnius going, so that scout should snag another worker soon). Sadly, I dooubt I will able to found pantheon (or religion), and thats a shame with so much wine ...

What do you think?

If renaissance RA can give you 2 turns of research I think it's worth 200gold. There's not a lot of stuff worth 200gold that can cut down 2 turns to victory. For example a school is 920gold so 4 times that. Rushing a school won't give you 8 turns.

But I'm not even sure you get 2 turns :/

Your 2 red spot are good.

Before chosing a 4th you need to know what is bellow Vilnius. Maybe the 2 coast don't connect or maybe there is a very good spot there.

If you keep units at home like your warrior, you would do good adding a 3rd scout.

THese guys just came back after finishing enslaving workers and needed to heal. And I gotta leave the scout there for a few turns till I have an archer, as that camp next to my capital will cause problems

So that delayed the scouting a bit, but nothing cruicial. How long does it take to remove the warmonger modifier under the new rules? It says - that he is somewhat worrying about my warmongering ... I think I met him after I got a worker from the CS, so that has to be because I declared on him.

Things get more complicated ... I could live with forward settling Siam, but Portugal placed a crappy city too close to the place I wanted ...

So if I want 4 cities, I either have to pick one of the two hills at this crossing or put 2 crappy flatland cities on my side of the coast.

If I settle the red one I can connect the two seas, the continent continues way more to the south (Askia is there) , so it will be hard for ships to reach anything but CS otherway. And I suspect Lisbon and Porto are somewhere not very far around the coast to the west.

That on the other hand would be troublesome if we p*** Portugal off at some point

The white one is closer to the CS, the Sugar is one tile away, and jungles and marshes are pricey, so I'll need way more money to get to it.


I also think I have to do that 4th settler now, before some of them gets funny ideas to settle near my millions of wines, and this one has to go south, but I am rather concerned about this development. If I am to go culture, the 4th city would help a lot, especially if I can feed both with cargo ships. If I don't get another coastal, the third on the coast has mostly useless plains as land food and too few fishes, and that will be very bad for its growth ...

I am gonna try for the religion (got culture/faith from wine - as faith from quarries was taken), as I got religious CS friend now, may send em some gold to increase the fpt from em further. 2 religions found, but I guess its still possible to get one in 30ish turns.

Any other ideas?

Red spot is good, getting access to both seas and the fish is a good idea I think.

I wouldn't spend a lot of money on religious CS. The return is rather low. Spending 250G to get an ally for 15ish and more happiness is good but spending 750G to get an ally would be a bad idea. Try to bring your fpt to 8 per turn and you should be fine for creating a religion, making the wine city soon should be almost enough.

You don't look close to NC at all so yes I'd make the 4th city right away.

No no, that religious civ I have in mind is my friend with 50+ influence. So allying it should be easy and help a bit, after I sell some wines

I did some progress, but I guess I have to change the objectives. CV doesn't really seem to be possible here ...

How can I beat this monster? My cap has 1/3 of the production he has ...
I founded religion (with rather stupid beliefs - divine inspiration, +15% production, tithe and something that doesn't do anything useful), but looking at the indian prophet - I am gonna lose it in the capitol too. His religion has all I need at least - monasteries and faith from quarries).

Noone fights anyone, and I have no GPT to sponsor a war ...
At least I am only 6% behind Portugal in tech, and there are many cheap techs to discover. I hope, that I will be able to get Louvre at least - without it, I seriously doubt I have any shot at CV.

If you're too late to the party to get the necessary wonders your best solution is to kill those that are spamming them.

Your game doesn't look very good for a peaceful CV I'm afraid.

dragonxxx said:

I did some progress, but I guess I have to change the objectives. CV doesn't really seem to be possible here ...

How can I beat this monster? My cap has 1/3 of the production he has ...
I founded religion (with rather stupid beliefs - divine inspiration, +15% production, tithe and something that doesn't do anything useful), but looking at the indian prophet - I am gonna lose it in the capitol too. His religion has all I need at least - monasteries and faith from quarries).

Noone fights anyone, and I have no GPT to sponsor a war ...
At least I am only 6% behind Portugal in tech, and there are many cheap techs to discover. I hope, that I will be able to get Louvre at least - without it, I seriously doubt I have any shot at CV.

Click to expand...

if you are not yet in Renaissance (for some very weird reason), with 200 faith you can buy an inquisitor, and that will stop the Indian prophet. Once you lose your faith generator, it's hard to gain it back though. Divine inspiration will outperform monasteries by a long shot so try not to lose it. (If desperate, and India is very far away, capture that prophet with your archer if you must, using "shall we declare war on" discussion and see if you can make a friend out of the mess in the meanwhile)

I don't see any reason why your game should be unwinnable at this point (peaceful neighbors really help, and I don't think Korea is in your game so you have a long time to win), faith generation is OK... so aside from the current size and meh terrain of Paris things are far from hopeless, once you hit civil society and fertilizer you can really start to ramp Paris up. Rio is only at +10 food and so I can't foresee it getting that much bigger so you will catch up eventually. For now you just have to internalize 3 routes to feed Paris and get WLTKD from now on. Your main objective now is to get ironworks (and weirdly enough why do you go for astronomy when you should head for architecture first for PT), followed by a grand temple, then hermitage. You can post the save if you wish...

Thats a very weird game ... (I didn't read these comments before playing it out a bit).

I got the louvre, and had just started making archeologists, when Spain attacks me for no reason (well I guess the reason was, that I have no army ). Still, we had DOF and RA, and I was even sending her a ship and its not like we had contested borders or something (unless that new city under Lyon counts).

There are several frigades, but I see no caravel for now, so I guess I can hold it for a while ...

In terms of CV - I entered modern era T181, but Portugal was 1 turn ahead of me, and rushed the Eifel tower few turns later (I already had chosen freedom instead of order , don't know what I was thinking) ... And got only 1 Public school in Paris, decided to make some archeologists and the cultural buildings while doing the Louvre.

So to make things even worse, Siam is 35% influential over me (and I am under 10%). So I will probably take a serious happiness hit soon, as I rarely see anyone but India going freedom ...

So at this game state, I have to hold spain, make peace, get oil , get flight, make planes and then either SV or just do a bomber rush. There are probably more than 50 cities on the continent ... But then again - I definitely have to switch to Order , so I get some happiness ...

Here are the two savegames if anyone wanna give it a try. Turn 140 and turn 192.

hmm took a look at your save...
Wasting 2 policies in patronage for consulates was pretty painful, that, and one of your cities is hopelessly foodless...

Dunno if you can win or not actually when I tried playing it I sold away one of your cities for some gold and tried to fix your empire a bit. Here I was able to keep freedom and everything looks nice and good so far. However, I couldn't even get Cristo or SoL since your faith income was neglected earlier and you didn't have that much production. Louvre is still available I think.

t303 CV peaceful... started from t140 save.

City sizes were 43, 30 and 34 I think. 3 cities only otherwise I would've drowned in sorrow (I foresaw this so I sold it really early as t145 or so after it was apparent that city is not going to grow well/be a drain on resources/national wonders); eventually after I went Freedom, Siam went Autocracy and Portugal went Order. This was before Brazil picked freedom to help me out and I was already teetering on the brink because Rammy kept buying out my mercantile CS.

Like I said I sold Orleans to Siam for a huge price of 180+ gpt. This allowed me to buy some CS, and then get WLTKD and made some key infrastructure purchases such as lighthouses, rush-bought workshops, coliseums, etc.... my 3rd lvl spy died on his 2nd coup attempt unfortunately.

Late to archaeology but it helped that Siam kept founding cities so I could build him a landmark on an isolated island.
Bribed him against Portugal eventually (I helped her out as a friend too but I couldn't build a landmark for her so when Siam denounced her I had to stop the DoW/denouncement before it came)

Otherwise just straightforward tall 3-city play. First time ever I've had to spend 700 faith on an inquisitor of another religion just so I could get a 40% shared religion bonus to the runaway.


Catching 67k Brazil and 62k Siam... not an easy task... and to that end..


I had to plant every single GS I got, and proposed historical landmarks.
Had I not done that chances are I would not have caught them. Tech speed is useless once internet and airports are up. (and your hammers cannot catch up with your tech anyway if you tech too fast without paying attention to infrastructure as you did here; you had size 9 cities working university slots for goodness' sakes! Machinery up but no workshops in every city/no spare hammer for crossbow for example. Tech path/SP path was pretty bad for CV TBH)

Can you post that last save, to take a look at it closer? (and one around T200-210)
Thats interesting approach selling Orleans

I agree, that running specialists in the Univercity slots was a bit too early, but I wanted to get to architecture asap. I had removed one after I saw how bad the situation really is.

What I don't understand is - why was the tech and policy path bad for CV?
Consulates would have been nice if the CSs were giving reasonable quests. I had mostly quests that I could not fulfil ... Like connect Incense (I could not find anyone with Incense since the very start, not even a single copy, to kick off WLTKD in Paris ffs). Getting more than 120 influence with Ur was the only way to do it ...

But what about the tech? I had machinery at that point, but after going education first, and then the bottom line, with so low production cities its hard to get these workshops very fast ... And machinery after the workshop techs took just a few turns.

dragonxxx said:

Can you post that last save, to take a look at it closer? (and one around T200-210)
Thats interesting approach selling Orleans

I agree, that running specialists in the Univercity slots was a bit too early, but I wanted to get to architecture asap. I had removed one after I saw how bad the situation really is.

What I don't understand is - why was the tech and policy path bad for CV?
Consulates would have been nice if the CSs were giving reasonable quests. I had mostly quests that I could not fulfil ... Like connect Incense (I could not find anyone with Incense since the very start, not even a single copy, to kick off WLTKD in Paris ffs). Getting more than 120 influence with Ur was the only way to do it ...

But what about the tech? I had machinery at that point, but after going education first, and then the bottom line, with so low production cities its hard to get these workshops very fast ... And machinery after the workshop techs took just a few turns.

Click to expand...

Here you go... don't have the winning save but autosaves will do.
As for the incense, Ur has it. Just coup it.

You should head straight for architecture next time rather than machinery unless you are aiming for PP and founding WC.

Since the nerf to PtP consulates is no longer worth it. I would've rather you spent those 2 policies in aesthetics.


View attachment AutoSave_0220 AD-1550.Civ5Save[/ATTACH]

Well, I was going directly to Architecture actually. Then I saw, that he is there, and I have no chance so I abandoned and went the bottom row first. My spy was in Amsterdam first.

Would it be better to go Architecture, when I have zero chance of claiming any of the wonders? I opted for Workshops and Ironworks instead, the top row doesn't contain anything more useful, except the wonders ...

About consulates - I am probably too used to have em, but even with the new rules they still help. And opening patronage is good idea too, as your influence decreases slower ...

About UR - thats good, but couping without level 3 spy, when u have 25 influence, and they have over 140? That hardly works ...

Can you please explain, how exactly do you do such high pop cities? All food caravans to cap, 2 ships both way to the other two? And how do u work the specialist slots ?

dragonxxx said:

Well, I was going directly to Architecture actually. Then I saw, that he is there, and I have no chance so I abandoned and went the bottom row first. My spy was in Amsterdam first.

Would it be better to go Architecture, when I have zero chance of claiming any of the wonders? I opted for Workshops and Ironworks instead, the top row doesn't contain anything more useful, except the wonders ...

About consulates - I am probably too used to have em, but even with the new rules they still help. And opening patronage is good idea too, as your influence decreases slower ...

About UR - thats good, but couping without level 3 spy, when u have 25 influence, and they have over 140? That hardly works ...

Can you please explain, how exactly do you do such high pop cities? All food caravans to cap, 2 ships both way to the other two? And how do u work the specialist slots ?

Click to expand...

Ideally, you want to get PT done and over with (preferably before the 1st world fair to free up some hammers/get the bonus 50% to RA); the timing on techs will differ from game to game, but generally speaking what your capitol (should be your highest production city) can build is dependent on how your satellites are doing; ironworks, circus maximus (if needed) and grand temple (if founded religion), later on hermitage are key buildings you should aim for eventually; and so your satellites need to have the corresponding building. But granted, they will lag behind the capitol.

You need to make the turns where the capitol is waiting for the satellites count as much as possible; it is a shame to have the capitol build units/caravans unless you have to. The capitol should build things that only the capitol can build like world wonders or whatnot national wonders. I usually after education (or sometimes before education if my satellites have poor production) get workshops, then run back to the top to go into acoustics. (Here capitol gets workshop first and goes Sistine or PT or in rare cases the PP wonders while satellites get their workshops/coliseums/temples up) then only when you are about to be ready, you go for ironworks. While capitol is finishing PT/ironworks your satellites will work on opera houses next, etc. It's all about timing. (Instead of patronage I like the aesthetics SPs better... faster culture buildings is VERY nice, coming at a time where your empire is at its busiest trying to get things done and +33% culture/free GA is just awesome).

I hate working university slots early in my satellites for this reason unless I've decided I'm going SV (which in my opinion is the cheapest type of victory, along with diplo); the science they provide is marginal compare to the capitol and they cost you food/hammers and in the end slow down your empire's national wonders. It makes no sense to get the lead in tech but do not have the infrastructure to take advantage of it.

btw I'm sure Ur had a quest for you or smthg but I recall I coup'ed it for the incense. A lvl 3 spy probably has a 50-50 chance of succeeding with such numbers but my chance was 79%. (btw how did you have that much gold but negative gpt in the save? I suppose you abused selling gpt for lump gold... that's something I don't usually do; but if you were going to do that you should've just rush-bought the workshops to begin with)

High pop cities comes from WLTKD everywhere (make sure you never miss one in the capitol) and food caravans, one ship each to satellites, 2 camels to capitol, and food focus. Since your tech rate was already fast (faster than what I am used to anyway) but your capitol lacks the size/hammers to take advantage of them, I even pulled the specialists off the university slots (work the culture ones though, as they are your main source of culture) for a while to work farms.

Then I beelined fertilizer after radio. After that I got penicillin and a medical lab in capitol (I beelined it for the extra TR gold but my capitol was still ~size 35 at that time so I figured a med lab might be worth it in terms of the food it saves)

btw from your starting SS, if it were me I'd shifted Paris one tile to the northwest, it gains cow and two more grassland river tiles (and leaves more tiles open for the eventual city on the coast just so they won't compete for tiles... I probably would've gotten that coastal city much bigger than 30 had that happened). Very worth the initial 1 production lost from hill.

I am not really convinced, that Pisa is the way to go. Even if I do everything right - like NC around T90, education around T100 and then going the bottom tree to get Pisa, I failed to get the wonder itself even on immortal. I probably got it the few times I had wonderful starting location, so I don't really bother with Pisa, even if its available , unless I have something like 2 salt, 2 other mining lux in the capital ...

And if I go that way, I have to delay astronomy, accustics and and architecture. While the wonders might not be mine to have, getting the Observatory is the safest road ...

Like I said - I had beelined Architecture, when I saw that Pedro is building Sistine. For some reason, he never finished it in my game, but that meaned, that he is already at Accustics, so he'd probably get Uffizi no matter what I do. I had no GE and way worse production than him after all ...

About the gold - I had it, because I had recently sold a lot of wine. I had several DOF, so I was probably selling 4 and exchanging 2 for other lux at that point. With the low GPT and potential happiness issues in the future, I don't think that buying Workshops everywhere would make any sense. I'd better have some cash for the public schools or for buying CS/Lux. Getting money from the AI for GPT is not really an abuse right now, its a real loan with tax, so I'd not do it if its not VERY important to have immediate cash ...

Ur - I have not missed a quest there, it was just offering jokes (like all the other CS). After the initial barb quests, the CS were asking in like 90% of teh time for:

- ask tribute
- great merchant
- great Musician
- great xxx (but not the things I could offer - GS or eventually GE)
- max culture for 30 turns (thing that I could no way do early game)
- max faith (absolutely impossible)
- ocasional gold 50% increase - that from maritimes with allies mostly
- Incense (I think at some point 3 or 4 CS were asking for it).
- few trade routes, but not from the CS cared about

I got 1-2 science for 30 turns quests, very few lux quests, I don't think I even won a quest for strategic resource, even after I had sold all I had ...

I could take it with coup at ~50% rate AFTER investing 1000 gold. Or investing 2000 gold, what I do not think is very wise thing to do, when u got almost no GPT ... 27GPT I could pay, but 70? That would trigger other CS quests too, but still, I don't think I was in a position to do that.

Its more of a bad luck to have your capital asking for the most scarce resource of em all, with only 1 source available anywhere in the map at that time.

I always play the CV game more like a science game, they are not that different in tech path after all, that leaves me with a backup plan, even if France has CV flavour

You might be right about the cap slot, but I have the "settle on hills" bias. This has saved me many times when I have aggresive neighbours next door. So I settle on flatland only when there is no other choise.
And here we have mountain+river+hill, grasslands and some hills ... You basicly swap the hammer from the hill for the hammer from the caw in that case, while losing the better defence perk provided by the hill. There were not that many overlapping tiles in this case, and thats not really something I could know before exploring.

I thank you very much for checking this out now, even if I do not agree with everything, this definitely gives me better ideas how to improve my game I will probably check how my war with Spain goes, and see how far can we get afterwards. You see under same conditions, Brazil got Order in my game, and that makes things way more complicated besides the backstab from Spain.

I will replay it from the T140 too if that fails to see what happens if I take the other path.