BUFFY & HOF Mod Releases

Didn't know the worker improvement and jungle was possible either. Think I've heard jungle won't grow over tiles if there is a unit there, but suppose that is wrong then.

Loaded up the game again (quit earlier because this was too odd), and it's just weird. It's the highlighted worker and you see the popup. Have never seen that before.

The issue with the WC using all move points was from Memphis. Earlier I moved WCs from Memphis to Helio and it got to the jungled tile in 1 turn. Now it only got across that river to the roaded tile in one move, which should take 0.5 move points and not 2.

Hope the whole she-bang isn't messed up for some freaky reason, because this is a delicious start, even got horse in the BFC, and I want to start the killing now.

Oddly enough, the only two tiles in the capital's BFC that doesn't have fresh water, is the city itself and the food. D'oh!



e: Here is the weird WC-moving. What gives?


More strangeness. It can move south to the green hill in one move, like expected, although that is also across a river, and without any roads. I don't get this at all. It's as if that road isn't there at all, and the game calculates as if the WC moves straight into a forest.

Pangaea said:

Don't know where to post this, but I'll try here. Two odd things just happened in my game.

A War Chariot was going to move out of the city it was produced in, and towards my intended target. There are roads between the cities, and it would travel on the road across a river and further west. This has gone fine earlier. Now, however, the WC could only travel this one tile before all moves were spent for some reason.

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Do you have construction? IIRC, pre-construction, crossing a river takes all movement points.

I'm skeptical of the chop issue. I think you accidentally started building a fort in that forest...i actually do that quite often. So you thought you were pre-chopping but you really you were putting turns into a fort.

Pre-construction, you lose movement points crossing a river..the forest adds -1 terrain cost...so basically you are not getting an bonus from a road here due to the river so it's like the road isn't even there(on that tile 1w of city)..there's nothing odd here. (i'm assuming that was new forest growth which is why you could move further earlier on, as without forest you would have 1 mp left to move to the jungle tile.

I've never ever seen what Serial mentioned about jungle growing on improvements. If I don't want a jungle growing on a tile I will often put 1t of improvement on the tile. don't think unit standing on a tile stops a jungle.

lymond said:

I'm skeptical of the chop issue. I think you accidentally started building a fort in that forest...i actually do that quite often. So you thought you were pre-chopping but you really you were putting turns into a fort.

Pre-construction, you lose movement points crossing a river..the forest adds -1 terain cost...so basically you are not getting an bonus from a road here due to the river so it's like the road isn't even there(on that tile 1w of city)..there's nothing odd here. (i'm assuming that was new forest growth which is why you could move further earlier on, as without forest you would have 1 mp left to move to the jungle tile.

I've never ever seen what Serial mentioned about jungle growing on improvements. If I don't want a jungle growing on a tile I will often put 1t of improvement on the tile. don't think unit standing on a tile stops a jungle.

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There was definitely not a fort getting built on that forest. I pre-chopped, the game sent me to the worker for the actual chop, it didn't fit with my micro, so I put one turn into a cottage instead. Then the pre-chopping was cancelled out for some odd reason. Don't think I've ever built a fort in all my games so far, and it always annoys me when automated workers do it.

May have played past the 10 autosave slots anyway by now, but wish I could go back and check it out for sure. Can you even load previous saves in HoF games without alarm bells going off in HoF Towers?

I'm not following on the forest-road-river issue tbh. A horse crossing a river shouldn't lose all movement points, and since there is a road there he should be able to move further in the same turn. Have I really lost the plot here?

Pangaea said:

Can you even load previous saves in HoF games without alarm bells going off in HoF Towers?

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Yes, this is fine. As long as you don't do any irreversible moves.

Pangaea said:

I'm not following on the forest-road-river issue tbh. A horse crossing a river shouldn't lose all movement points, and since there is a road there he should be able to move further in the same turn. Have I really lost the plot here?

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Yup, you have. When moving cross a river pre construction, a road has no effect at all. It costs 2 mp to move to a forest or a hill even if there is a road.

I don't know what to tell you about the pre-chop. I do that all the time, i.e., pre-chop but start another improvement to delay the actual chop ...just as you've done.

What I meant by fort is accidentally clicking the fort button instead of the chop button. I do that sometimes, but maybe it is just me. I'm like "wtf, why am I building a damn fort".

However, you say the game stopped the worker, per BULL, so I don't know - unless you canceled his move the turn before and just forgot. A fort can be built in forest without removing it, so you were not building a fort. However, it might be possible that you started an improvement on that tile like a cottage or farm - whatever one you did not use to delay the chop. The worker would get stopped 1t from completing that improvement as well.

Anyway, I have never had an issue with pre-chops/pre-improvements removing the actual pre-chop turns, so something is amiss here. I would test this on your end, as no one has reported this issue before. If it still happens, you may have a wonky install...but there should be no bug here.

Yup, as I said, the forest is the issue here for that chariot movement. Even without the forest, the chariot loses some mp crossing that river, but road or not, pre-construction, a 2mp unit can move 2 tiles across a river unless there is a forest or hill on the tile.

While I can't go into details of HOF detecting, I would try to avoid opening prior saves before a game is actually submitted unless you really have to, like checking to make sure you have the right start save...just simply to avoid mistakes from happening. (the HOF Towers do know when prior saves are opened)

(you might save off the autosave the turn worker stopped chopping and the we can all look at it after you submit your game)

In very slow:

Before Constructions, there are no bridges, therefor crossing Rivers always is like there were no roads. This is the case with the southern grassland, moving over the river costs 1MP, with road or without. To the west however you have a Forrest, so without bridge, the road doesn't count, so you move on a Forrest = 2 moves gone.

That's why you have to build Roads i. e. so they don't cross rivers or cross rivers then, when the least movement points are taken on a standard-route from a city (pro-tip) . Not possible in the case of the city you posted, because there's a hill to the north, so the road that you build is exactly the right one, you only have to chop the Forrest, then movement costs go down to 1MP until Construction.

Thanks guys. I suppose that forest must have grown over the road then, as I was definitely moving farther earlier. Two forest/jungle growth over roads in such a short time must be rare.

Err, checking starting saves before submitting... ho-hum

Have played further now, so the autosave is definitely gone now, but maybe I have a manual one nearby that I can check after the game is finished and I've submitted. I'm a pretty slow player and don't click willy nilly, so seriously doubt I started building a fort, and it doesn't really fit with how the game acted either. I saw later that it would take a whopping 10 turns to build a fort in the forest, so that can't have been it. It took a few turns, and when the forest would get chopped the game as usual turned back to the worker, asking if I wanted to complete the chop. I didn't and put down a turn into a cottage, and when I came back to complete the chop all turns into it was gone. Very strange, and I've never seen that happen before.

The popup in the screenshot I attached only show turns into a forest chop (the 'new' one) and cottage, so something weird must have happened here. Not going to load now in case something goes wrong that invalidates the game, but will take a peek once it's submitted.

Thankfully the game itself is going well, despite the RNG being an Evil Bastard. Four War Chariots to kill a non-hilled non-protective archer? Damn!

x-post (sort of)

@Pangaea can you post an auto save from T74 or T75?

I don't think a tile can regrow a forest when a unit is present.

lymond said:

I've never ever seen what Serial mentioned about jungle growing on improvements. If I don't want a jungle growing on a tile I will often put 1t of improvement on the tile. don't think unit standing on a tile stops a jungle.

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1. jungle/forest cannot grow on a completed improvement.

2. putting 1t into an improvement will not stop growth

3. Standing on a tile will prevent growth.

You sure, Waste? It always has worked for me....always

Don't really know about standing on a tile as I've never tried it. good to know really...especially when you have those early gems surrounded by jungle.

lymond said:

You sure, Waste? It always has worked for me....always

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You've just been lucky

It's been a while, but I recall, in my National Epic city (you know, where you should build a dozen forest preserves) I put many turns into a partial forest preserve, then chop the forest. With all the other preserves surrounding it, it regrows. Then it's just 1 turn to finish the preserve.

but that is a preserve...i.e., it can exist in forest and jungle. Most other improvements cannot.

yeah, I could be lucky but I've done it so much. I got that pointer a long time ago from someone. I forget who.

Ok..where are the code divers..calling all code divers

(also, note that I was not including roads as "improvement")

lymond said:

but that is a preserve...i.e., it can exist in forest and jungle. Most other improvements cannot.

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I thought you'd say that. I'm also pretty sure I experienced a partial workshop in the same situation.

I could code dive, but it's easier if you set up a test game with a tile with 1t farm -- surrounded by 4 forest preserves and press enter until your dreams are destroyed . (use a dual map with lots of water)

be sure and removed the worker from the tile.

you were right:



tile in question should be obvious

Granted the preserves increase the odds significantly - it was fairly quick for both forest and jungle. I wonder if the partial improvement has any affect at all in decreasing the chance for spawn...that's some serious luck in my case

WastinTime said:

1. jungle/forest cannot grow on a completed improvement.

2. putting 1t into an improvement will not stop growth

3. Standing on a tile will prevent growth.

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Cheers, I'll consider this confirmation then, combined with the test by lymond. I remember it was discussed in the only SGOTM I've participated in. There was a pig with jungle around it, and we didn't want to risk it getting overgrown (it happened in a test game I ran), so before we got a chance to improve it, we put a warrior there for a few turns.

IIRC, putting a road on a tile reduces the odds by 50% for forest or jungle regrowth, and jungle spread has a higher base chance for regrowth than forest. Diagonal tiles don't count, only the four horizontal/vertical tiles matter.

WastinTime said:

3. Standing on a tile will prevent growth.

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This is definately wrong, unless I've been dreaming, that a Jungle grew over my Pigs while a Worker was improving them.

As written, I had a pastured Pigs in the Jungle without IW afterwards, was a super-rare event that only happened once, but I'm 100% sure that I didn't dream it, because we even discussed about it in one of the Replay's.

That chances for this are superlow is easily explainable, because how low are the chances for a Jungle-spread anyhow, now how low are the chances that exactly that Jungle spreads where a Worker is standing?

Seraiel said:

This is definately wrong, unless I've been dreaming, that a Jungle grew over my Pigs while a Worker was improving them.

As written, I had a pastured Pigs in the Jungle without IW afterwards, was a super-rare event that only happened once, but I'm 100% sure that I didn't dream it, because we even discussed about it in one of the Replay's.

That chances for this are superlow is easily explainable, because how low are the chances for a Jungle-spread anyhow, now how low are the chances that exactly that Jungle spreads where a Worker is standing?

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Impossible. You must have been dreaming. Do the same type of test lymond did. Surround your worker with preserves and press enter...for eternity. Unfortunately, it won't be 'proof' like it was in the other case, but you should be able to convince yourself.

Did anybody ask Lemon yet if she would be willing to finish BUFFY 4?

Seraiel said:

Did anybody ask Lemon yet if she would be willing to finish BUFFY 4?

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No, Lemon has not been asked.