Open game - Charadon, patch n edition

Jet

No, no, please. Please.
Joined
Mar 16, 2006
Messages
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A friendly game, for anyone to try, to compare play options and look at the Doviellos with Charadon. Inspired by Doviello late-game economics and the dovillio.

Following The Lonely Hearts Club in the main Strategy & Tips forum: "A small request (not mandatory): we ask the participants to do, if possible, a write-up with the victory save and a description of your game (strategies, techs researched, wars, ...). All the info should be in spoiler tags (to not disturb other people's games). If you want (we would like you to), post reports of the game" at turns 100, 200, 300, etc.

Settings:
* Patch n
* Difficulty: your choice at game start. The game was generated at Immortal, so the AIs start with four zero XP warriors, two zero XP scouts, a worker, the starting settler, and with Agriculture, Ancient Chants, and Crafting for free.
* Speed: your choice at game start
* Normal size, Fractal, low sea level, 2 extra AIs
* No Tech Brokering
* All victories enabled
* I played the start long enough to check that it had an AI reachable by land.
* This is the same file I posted for patch m



To play the save, download it, rename it to Charadon.CivBeyondSwordWBSave, and double click it.
 

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Excellent. Never played on Immortal, so it will be niced to be stomped out quickly for once. :)
 
count me in

edit:
saved around turn 200, destroyed 2 civs, one is down to a single city, warring with the 4th and waiting for the capitulation.
nice game so far, not very spectacular.
 
Great idea, I'll see if I can fit it into my schedule to play and post about it.
 
Play until exactly turn 200

Spoiler :
Took out the Amurites very Early, and then Jonas
Spent a long time stabalizing my economy before starting in on Auric.
Rhoanna was getting owned by the barbarians, interestingly enough, so I ignored her. Auric is my next target since he is far too large and needs to be taken down a peg, so I had to spring for bronze weapon.

I wasn't horribly pleased with my tech choices so far, I went for city states right off, thinking it'd let me support the cities I conquered, but I was pretty much wrong


Fairly normal game so far, Lucian starting with combat 1 is a bit nice, though I had to reload like the 10th turn when he got killed by a spider while walking over a hilly forest :p. Stupid spider.
 
Thanks for setting this up!
Haven't played as Charadon before so not sure what to expect. Settings: monarch, normal.

Played 'till 100 so far:

Spoiler :


Short version:
I explore, settle 2 towns grabbing nice plantation town and copper, and gain some workers and cash by raiding Dain. Dain also getting hit by "For the Horde" frostlings and has lost his capital to Jonas.

Long version.

Moved 2N (settled NE of cows on turn 1)
Decide to grow city so build: scout, warrior, worker, warr, Settler
Meet Rhoanna's scout early.

I see a nice riverside w/ corn & 3 wooded plantation resources nearby east so I decide i can start with calendar economy as long as i am on the metals path to clear the woods. Tech path for the turn set therefore goes

Agr.-> Cal. -> Craft -> Mine -> Exploration -> start on BW

26. My scouts steal a worker from Dain. ceasefire soon after.
34. Mokka announced; immediately "A Player casts For the Horde". I guess that's smart.

35. I get an event where some townie is raising a baby Harpie. I refuse to let the mob burn her. Get a great Bard but now my only town has 15 turns of "Viva la Resistance"! Have the harpie-Bard create great work. Net result: not much.

48. Switch to Agrarianism right away. Settler will finish faster even w/ revolt; with my extra stolen worker i've already farmed every nonwooded tile

64. Fjirgard founded in the east, SE of the corn.
Get Deruptus Brewers started soon in Fjirgard. Urslo is building beastmen.

70. Queue a second settler who will stake a claim whereever we find copper

76. Orthus spawns not too far away. It's nice to not have to worry about him, or the frostlings, or the nearby lizard ruins, except that my guys have no xps..

86. Cevedes falls to the Clan. I send Lucien and a small raiding party to get in on the action.
90. Lucien steals a worker and promotes him to Beastman
92. w/ 4 raiders vs. (2 war & 3 scouts) defending i estimate 50% chance to take a city. I decide not to burn "Get some Wolves" spell quite yet nor let Lucien take a risky combat. Combat goes 2 loss 2 win, Lucien gets some xp, I fall back to pillaging.
-> Bronzeworking starts.

96. Mortensholm founded on the southern coast w/ rice and copper in 1st ring.


 
played to 205 turns.

short version w/ a bug report (that is a mild spoiler)
Btw why would you ever take Supplies over a Great Eng at the same price? (this is a choice from an event)

Spoiler :

Bug: i found a Ring of Charcer with 2 Brigits inside.

in this turnset warred with Hippus, keeping their capitol and one other. They got dogpiled and finished off.

Auric is tech leader. Jonas is still doing a good job empire building. I founded OO and since all neighbors (@ turn 205!) are still pagan i will try to spread to some friends.

Stasis and River of Blood combined to hurt my econ badly. Cash from Pillage/razing powered through deficit research for markets & cottages and now situation is stable. Took some time off to build some jobs infrastructure and ready to gear back up for war.

as per usual score list is
evil evil evil evil neutral good

(evils 2 thru 4 have been ready, willing, and able to dogpile with expected results. While the score/tech leader is Auric who has been sitting back.)




full notes below

Spoiler :
105. Fall back to heal / queue some civilian builds (granary)
108. Stasis, ouch. Units strike 1 turn, but none quit. Was very close to finishing Bronze Working & brewhouse :(

113. Road network is in, start clearing 1st rings of forest for safety. Lucien & 5 raiders set out for Dain.

118. Capture & keep Udenarat (Lakeside, wheat, cow, marble). Lose contact with Dain, I guess he's dead? didn't see the popup.

125. Heron BIDL
129. Finally stasis ends, sci @ 60%.
137. Meet Auric, he's high score by a couple hundred. Open borders w/ Illians.

138. Bronze weapons in, but only cash to upgrade Son of Asena. Start Ancient Chants.

140. DoW Rhonna. Her capitol is closest city to me but across a good patch of desert. Back to military builds except 1 settler. Saving many turns to get first wave of reinforcements since SoAs build w/o training yards.

142. -3% inflation event. "Bow" comes to prominence for the 3rd straight time.

147. Research Education at 40%. Economy won't crash too hard after all (knock wood)

152. River of Blood .. Bad timing, econ tanks. Army getting many promos killing hippus scouts. Turn back decent Hippus squad by camping wooded chokepoint, then massacre them in the open. Escorted workers start road through the Southern Desert toward Hippus.

154, Capture & keep Hippus capital (gems, clams). Windfall will deficit-research Education in 4 turns @100%, although then we'll be stone broke. Small squad goes on to pillage. Get the "Engineer or Supplies" event. Why would you ever take the supplies at the same price?

Lucien "dings" lvl6 (shock 2 & march)

158. Research is at 20%, counting on "pillage econ" for some time. Settle Heimsetter south of capitol to collect cotton, cows, wheat. I hope it'll pay for itself w/ cotton plantations (or cotton cottages)

-> Festivals (but @ 0% ...)

167. Meet Alexis south of Hippus; Swap Calendar for Ani Husb. don't see any horses, so I don't trade for HBR. Cap & burn a hippus town; will almost allow deficit research for Festivals (50 bucks short)

175. Raze another town, finish festivals. Hippus are running out of pillageables, so Lucien and friends learn "Bounty Hunter". Fortunately Hamlets are starting to come online.

-> Fishing -> Mysticism @ 30%

184. Meet Capria. She's also at war with Hippus and so we are on "Pleased" terms. Meet Falamar. They're near the bottom of score.

188. Cap & keep last Hippus town after Auric softened them up. Not in ideal spot but with dogpile against Rhoanna it was "use it or lose it". claims sugar, rice, fish.

Econ is stable, lots of civilian builds queued up (markets, workers/boats, smokehouse). Beastmen of lvl >= 3 are upgraded.

190. Noone here has a religion so I will take a shot @ MftDeep, hopefully ~ 14 turns depending how fast the econ picks up.

Trade festivals to Auric for masonry. he seems to be tech leader.

193. Jonas dow Falamar. I need more intel. I set a scout on auto explore.

199. Falamar is getting angry since I won't support him. I settle Suderholm in a filler spot between the heartlands and Old Hippia. (fish, mana in 2nd ring)

200. I join the war on side of orcs.

201. Machavelli writes that An Unknown civ is richest.
203. Scout finds Ring of Carcer not too far away; There are Two Brigits inside.

205. OO successfully founded in Udenarat (good place for it, a mature city in Old Amuria where i can spare turns for religious builds). Capria DOW on jonas.

Had Jonas over for some Somium, and lost :(

as per usual score list is
evil evil evil evil neutral good

tentative plan is to spread OO to jonas & stay on good terms, while warring in the south.

done enough civilian builds so that my specialists can find jobs. gradually switching back to Sons of A.

tech: i've clicked on KotEther thinking of shaman, i'll reconsider when I start back up.
 
Based on another bug report somewhere, I think the bug you found may be a result of converting to Worldbuilder format (which is the only way to allow the player to choose the difficulty level.) It doesn't sound like a game-ruining bug, at least.
 
turn 100
Spoiler :
Immortal / Normal.



Settle Corn / Cottonx2 / Silk x2; 42 gold from coast hut.

Lost initial Scout and Beastman to a Griffon. Built Scout -> Worker -> Beastman*.

For the Horde is cast on turn 14 and Samhain on 32.

Turn 41 - get to size 5; stop growth and emphasize commerce.

Agr -> Calendar. Black Candle event on turn 48, but I still only have 42 gold, so it just finishes the last 4 turns on Calendar. Then Exploration to hook up Cotton and connect the first cities.

49 - Declare on Dain with Lucian and 3 Warriors. I was able to watch his capital across the diagonal. He was under pressure from Frostlings, Lizardmen, and Skeletons, and had 3 warriors, a scout, and a worker, mostly unpromorted; and had just sent out his first settler gang. I sac one Beastman, but win at 80% (Lucian) and 87%, and finish at high odds for 150 gold, keeping it.

His second city survives. I leave his capital undefended and get to it on turn 65 with 4 Beastmen and Lucian vs 2 Warriors and a Scout, all promoted. Get it at a loss of 3 Beastmen. Jonas (and only Jonas) is in war prep, and although Falamar is his worst enemy, I can't tell who the target is. So if it's me, I want to be able to defend my east side. So I decide not to go after Rhoanna, and instead economy up and maybe get Copper, while being prepared to defend if needed. Keep Dain's second city, which is in a good spot on a hill.

My second scout explores clockwise and meets Falamar, Alexis and Capria before dying.

82 - Run out of money and drop to 50% science. After Calendar I went gone Exploration (happy, trade routes) -> Crafting (Wine, mining) -> Mining (Copper) and have started Ancient Chants.

87 - Finish building the last Beastman I can afford for the moment. I have 3 in the capital, 2 in the middle city, 6 plus Lucian in the eastern city, and 2 exploring. One of them tries to follow Orthus to pick up the axe if it dropped, but dies to a giant. The capital is building another Worker and the other two cities are building Palisades.

89 - Ancient Chants -> Education. The capital goes Worker -> Settler. The Settler is due one turn before Education, which sounds about right. The second and third cities queue Monuments ahead of their Palisades.

93 - Stasis cast

100 - extra produce event on the corn farm in my capital, nice. After Stasis runs out, I'll be something like 15 turns from Education.

The power graph is in the picture. Jonas is still in war prep, but nobody is at war, unless there's another civ I can't see. (At least some of Falamar's losses are from Orthus). I could use the Stasis to attack Rhoanna's capital, since Jonas probably can't get himself out of war prep during it. I can't really afford to keep her capital, though, and it would leave my east side open. But I should think about attacking Jonas. I can probably raze a city and trim him back.
 
Turn 293.

Summary:
Spoiler :

Spread OO and otherwise made an emphasis on keeping good diplo with the evil civs, especially getting to be good pals with Jonas. Auric squandered his nice position by fighting a war of mutual annihilation against Jonas which I have stayed out of, so far.

Tech focus was on priesthood and iron working to make a strong core for the army. I had to divert for some irrigation/food techs to compensate for tundra spreading. I've kept intending to take out the Bannor but first got backstabbed by Calabim, then Lanun decided to escallate our cold-war. No matter, the Doviello warriors have made steady progress against all challengers so far, especially once a few shaman and the stooges were added for support. It's nice to be able to leave a couple captured Beastmen to defend a city and be able to scramble a javelin tosser from nearby, and the real army barely has to slow down.

"Pillage-economy" got through the rough patch and now economy is trucking along just fine. City-states was huge.


Full Notes:

Spoiler :

206: Convert OO
214: dow Bannor to maintain good terms with Evil block. Jonas converts OO after auto-spread.

kotEther -> cartog
Start some Shamans

215: Make some resource trades to Auric and get Writing for KotE. Open borders w/ Alexis. Peace w/ Falamar.

218: use cartog to open borders with Jonas
get HBR and hunting in trade from Alexis (giving her OO)

Distance maintanance is killer in southern cities.
Revolt to citystates & apprenticeship.
Alexis converts OO

219: -> Code of Laws
Falamar converts OO
Lucien sent off w/ 5 experienced raiders to pillage & burn Bannor. 1st axe reaches lvl 6; earns a name (Crag Hack)

225: Lots of tempting techs, choose to target Saverous
-> Mind stapling
Take a shot at Pact of the Nilhorn (26 turns)
Reinforcements en route raze Bannor settlement. Core towns look tougher to crack. Fall back and wait for shaman

231: re-DoW on Falamar for brownie points with Jonas. Bannor army is kind enough to move into desert kill zone to be slaughtered.

234: -> Trade
Start Summer palace, 43 turns, ouch. Forests to chop.

236: Great Merch, hmm. Decide to settle in my OO holy city.

238: -> Philosophy
Alexis backstabs me so I accept Archery from Capria for peace. Shaman helps Lucien's squad hustle home. In Calabim border towns I see royal guards and bloodpets.
A lot of my formerly nice lands are turning to tundra. thanks a ton, Auric.

240: Cast Wild Hunt. Raze 1st Calabim city (it was too close). Royal guards are pretty robust but Dance of Blades plus sacrificial units wears them down.

242: -> Priesthood
Capture and keep a Calabim city with floodplains and dyes on tundra

248: Saverous ready to go. Slip a couple asylums into the queues. Keep an otherwise medicre Calabim city w/ reagents. Trade for Warfare from Jonas.
-> Smelting.. Turn up deficit research for Smelting in 5.

Auric dow's on Jonas.. Great, Hopefully they beat each other up, but i don't plan to get involved yet.

252: Stooges are summoned. I decide to have them declare nationality since i have plenty of legit work for them. Finally get a hawk in the air; Jonas' empire is big but backwards. He loses a city to Auric already.

256: We have iron and also just preemptively cut off Alexis'. Smelting is monopoly tech but can't get anything for it. Fine then. Need to get irrigation & food to combat the encroaching tundra.

->Construction -> Sanitation -> Iron Working.
Take a calabim desert city that would be a beauty someday with some water terraforming (3 floodplains, standing stones, more reagents).

259: Peace in latest round of cold war w/ Falamar.
Make a pretty fair trade with him to get Sailing & Mil Strat.

267: Curly, Moe, and Saverous arrive at the front for the sack of Prespur. Keep it, but it has no buildings! *Sigh*. it's in an okay spot anyway.

270: Our score surpasses Auric for #1 spot. Jonas and Auric are beating each other senseless, allowing Capria and Falamar to strike back in a 4-way bloodbath. Good times.

273: Alexis still won't make substantial offer for peace. Raze a frozen slum, maybe her 2nd last city. Three of Lucien's Raiders are up to level six now and have a good mix of support troops.

Summer Palace finishes, and some big chain-irrigation projects are almost done.

277: Iron Working in, way ahead on that part of the tech tree. Finish off Alexis, finally getting horses; troops step inside to heal up & grab some iron axes, the elites upgrade to Battlemasters of course. Cap'd lots of workers ... send half home to build lumber mills and press the rest into service as beastmen.
-> Currency

Auric demands wheat. Fine.

282: -> Alteration and dow Capria to consolidate the southwest penninsula. Take a nice financial city on the first turn. I wish i knew where any of my lunatics had run off to.

286: Jonas' 3-front war was too much, he is getting dismantled by Auric (tons of catapults and jav throwers..). Jonas and Falamar make peace; Falamar dow's on me. Time to wrap up Capria asap.
->Stirrups

290: Oh, found my lunatics. They're milling about in enemy territory not doing anything.
291: -> Sorcery. Finally the loonies attack! 3 of 4 win and almost nab the emperian holy city, deep in bannor territory.

293: Let Capria pay gold for peace, because Falamar looks to be a problem.
 
Turn 100:
Spoiler Summary :
Wars vs first the Amurites and then the Hippus have both been successful and finished, though Lucian died.
I took one city from each, but I razed 3 cities of the Hippus and the Barbarians took their capital! They currently have Mokka on the way to, I guess, sit in it. :p
The barbarians have been a huge help so far. And their presence is pretty substantial, with at least 2 good cities, many lairs, and a pretty decent stack walking around with a mix of frostling archers, skeletons and warriors.
All this and more, in my spoiler below!
Spoiler Notes_and_Pics :
7: 38 Gold from a Hut to the SW
48: With 8 beastmen and Lucian I enter the Amurite borders and declare war. I have two more Beastmen on their way. And a barbarian Frostling Wolf Rider that will probably attack before me.
For the first time in a while, the Amurites actually have a few defenders (3 warriors now, they used to have 5+) in the city. This should be a peace of cake.
49: The Frostling Wolf Rider kill a defender, this is just too easy! 3 of my warriors die in the battle, I keep the city and
pillage 95 Gold in the process. The Amurite civilization is destroyed.
53: A Griffon has killed two of my lone
Beastmen already, he needs to be dealt with. This delays my next rush a bit!
54: I get an event, WERWOLF_MORALITY_BAD, not sure what it does. But I pick the first option, to sacrifice one man to the werewolf. This apparantly makes all my units unable to move and slightly damaged. And did I mention the Griffon killed another Beastman this turn? Probably will kill one more the
next, my entire army will be slain by this lone beast!!!
55: Another Beastman was slain as predicted, the Griffon is now Combat IV, but badly damaged. We have him now!
The rush on Hippus is put on a serious hold as I only have 4 units alive at this juncture.
Damn that flying monstrosity!
56: I finally finish a worker in the capital. Time to improve those Cows and make some more Beastmen.
62: A polar bear kills a Beastman. At least it wasn't Lucian. Lucian takes care of him.
64: For 15 turns of disorder in Cevedes I get a
Great Bard. The bard could give me a nice
income, or possibly rush a tech.

I first thought this was in the Capital, so I hesitated for a while, but since it is in Cevedes, it's just awesome. I choose to settle it in the city. It will take 15 turns till I get any effect, but the city will need culture, and I will need the income from the bard. (I could have kept it for 15 turns and decided then instead, but what's done is done).

73: Open my borders to the Illians.
76: Orthus spawns, to my east, near the Clan.
78: The Hippus borders have retreated, apparantly their closest city have fallen to the Barbarians?!
They are still alive however. I move my troops to investigate.

83: I declare war on Rhoanna and enter their Borders, next to Radonnor. The Barbarian trait has helped me a lot against these guys! :D
84: Radonnor is defended by two Warriors when I arrive, one seem to be brand new, the other damaged but with Guerilla promo on a hill.
I lose one warrior when taking the city, I burn it to the ground. The Hippus have at least two more cities.
The Barbarians have a strong presence here now, with a Barrow and a city, and Mokka on the way. Two Lizardmen moving around and two skellies on the barrow. I move one of my Beastmen to the barrow so that both the skellies will (hopefully) move.
84: I now have 9 Beastmen and Lucian, most of the Beastmen are on their way, and 2 of them are defending my cities. I am now building a Settler to improve my economy.
And my two workers are working on connecting my cities.
86: After an initial attack by the Barbarians, Conrad Mor is weakened, and I raze it, recieving 81 gold in the process. A worker is captured.
87: Aww, crap. Lucian dies to a Giant Spider next to ruins of Conrad Mor. On another note, the barbarians have a nice stack of units here.
90: I kill two defenders in Feiss Mabdon, after an initial assault by the barbarians. Only one defender remains.
92: The road to Cevedes is finished, I continue building roads down south to the Hippus area. Connecting the Barrows and Ruins for improved barbarian speed as I go along.
93: I take Feiss Mabdon, keep it, gain 24 gold in the process, and I meet Alexis at the same time. Only one lost Beastmen thanks to the cooperative Barbarians. :)
And Rhoanna is now defeated.

 

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Turn 201, Emperor, Normal speed
Spoiler Summary_and_Overview :
More War! Two more civilizations fall at the hands of the Doviello Beastmen.
Peace ensues and the Doviello works hard to improve it's economy.



Spoiler :
101: I get Cartography, but I'm not gonna switch to City States until I finish my settler in 2 turns.
102: I declare war on Calabim, and enter their territory.

103: I take Acaia and I keep it. 25 Gold is plundered. I switch to Agrarianism and City States.
108: Settled Fjirgard down where the Hippus used to be.

116: I pillage a cottage and a pasture outside Nubia for a total of 21 Gold.
117: I pillage a hamlet and gain 19 gold, I upgrade both my Workers at the border to beastmen for 20 gold each.
118: I pillage two cottages, a hamlet outside Nubia and gain a total of 30 gold. I pillage another Cottage outside Acaia and gain 5 more gold.
119: I pillage two more cottages and gain another 10 gold.
122~: I take nubia and 3 workers, I upgrade them all to Beastmen.
125: Once healed up, I go for the next city.
128: Prespur is taken, 2 beastmen lost in the process. I get two workers and Alexis is now defeated.
129: Capria wants me to join in on a war against Lanun. I say no. I will have to see later what side I'll join in on if they are still fighting.
130: I settle Mortensholm, north of Cevedes.

131: I trade maps with Capria. She only have 3 cities, but she has Archers. I will wait till I have bronze working to attack her. Her cities are located on or near the coast, so her only front is towards me and the barbarians (Acheron has a hill city near me, between me and Lanun)
137: Uh oh, The Illians casted Stasis. Crapsticks! I'm losing money and fast.
I attack Capria, at a perfect situation, they have apparantly been affected by some event where all their units are hurt and held for 3 turns. And they cant build reinforcements! I kill an archer and an axeman on a hill next to their new city.
138: I raze Tentatio-onis, and gain 10 Gold in the process. Mokka is here to cheer us on! :)

I don't seem to lose any money, I guess that's how stasis is really supposed to work, lol I scared myself.
I capture two Bannor workers and upgrade them to Beastmen.
141: I Capture Trinity, keep it, and pillage 124 Gold.
145: I capture Vallus and 125 Gold.
At the same time, a lone Beastman has killed of a scout outside Torrolerial and a Warrior inside the city, leaving the city defended by a lone scout!
146: The capital of the Bannor have been captured, 139 Gold have been liberated and Capria has been defeated.
First I thought that the Stasis would be a disaster for me, but it turned out to be a blessing in disguise. When I panicked and declared war it was at the best opportunity possible, the Bannor did not have as good defenses as I presumed. They had only 2 archers, and only one of them was in a city.
Not only that, the city's are rioting during Stasis! Totally harmless.
159: Stasis is finally over! Time to grow all cities to size 5 cause I got cotton hooked up, and try to get some culture, more happy resources, markets everywhere, and some cottaegs once I get Education in 2 turns.
166: With Crafting my wine resource finally gives happines, raising the happiness cap to 6 in most cities.
168: The Clan asks for our assistance with their, not yet started, war with the Lanun, we accept. Seeing as they are our closest friends.
175: I get a Great Merchant in my Capital. I move it to the city with the Great Bard, to decide whether to do a trade mission or settle it, or whatever when I arrive.
178: I decide to check out the clan's territory and see if I can get a good trade mission with the merchant.
180: The Illians demand wheat from us and we comply. We have no intent of ending our friendship at this moment, and we have two wheat resources. We also get Mining this turn and find out we have no Copper inside our borders. We immediatelly queue a settler, and find a spot where we can get both copper and rice, necessary for our future Dereptus Brewery.
181: Mysticism has been researched.
189: I reach the Illian capital Garduk, in the far east, at the coast. It will give 1100 Gold, I don't think I will get more from any city at this time, so I decide to do it. And then I raise my research to 90%.

199: Seems that the Illians got Trade, we trade Mysticism to them for Masonry.
200: I settle on the Copper, finally I have a metal. I finish the Dereptus Brewing House in Vallus, after intensive chopping and cottage building in it's BFC.

201: Traded Code of Laws, Festivals, and Philosophy to Auric for Bronze Working, Archery, Fishing and their World Map.
Going to switch to Aristocracy + Slavery, probably next turn, and upgrade some of my Beastmen to Sons of Asena as soon as they stop being held for whatever reason.
 

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Turn 353, it's over except the mop up.

Turnset Summary

Spoiler :

Its a race for Conquest between my forces and Auric's. I take down Lanun and Bannor while he destroys Jonas (formerly very powerful, so tip of the hat to Auric!) and he takes out Acheron for good measure. Auric makes a nice diplo play of accepting Capria as a voluntary vassal and coming to her aid, attacking me with a decent size stack (~30) of highly promoted horse archers.

Doveillo draftees whittle down Auric's forces with a scorched-earth retreat while the professional army finishes crushing Bannor. In the end our tech advantage(!) comes in to play, as the Illian charge is blunted in the south while Doviello bison riders and the war machine are ready to open another front in the north.

It will be fun to play out but I won't keep notes. If any interesting twists happen I will post :)


Here are some questions/comments I have for you guys.

Why isn't life an Alteration node, if it's used in the tower of alteration?

I very much prefer the new Flesh golem mechanic (I haven't played with them for a long time, when it used to average the strengths of the guys you add). It is a lot more user-friendly, and gave me something to do with leftover wolves, that is, mutate the lot of them and add the good ones to the golem.

I don't like the new Crazed. I guess it's fine on lunatics and other melee units, but nothing else. Spellcasters just go fortify in a city somewhere for example. My cultists chase workboats that they'll never catch. Also the rate seems really high, so they're guaranteed to craze before they rally to the front. I'd almost rather the game just delete any shaman or priest who's born enraged than have them act like this.

Back to the point of evaluating Charadon, I don't think he's weaker than Mahala. His traits aren't as good for the Doviello pillage economy but he can pack a little more punch, so maybe you have a chance to take an early city or two that Mahala wouldn't. I wouldn't mind seeing Doviello have one or two more mid-game fun/flavor boosts, like ..

A shapeshifting Ranger/bear, or Hunter/wolf?
A unique building that gives an extra little boost from tundra resources (fur, deer)?

Full notes.
Spoiler :

Bannor and Lanun both have ~5 cities left and are cranking out axe/swordsmen. Need to try to dispatch them ASAP with my Battlemasters/Loonies so I can move on to fight Auric before he develops into a real threat.

My core cities are stabalizing ~size 15. With Auric's blizzards spreading tundra I am having trouble sparing food for specialists, but cottage economy is working fine. I'm adding lumber mills to hopefully get a couple real effective production centers. Beyond getting some assassins I don't think there are any pressing tech priorities assuming I can keep moving fast enough.

Building military in the smaller citys and money changers & aqueducts in the core.

294: Can't decide what to do with a great merch, so trigger a GAge. Switch civics to Military State but stay in agrarianism. Falamar has taken one border town from me, I hope he stays in there a few turns so that his city raider promos don't come in to play.

-> Sorcery in 5

297: Falamar's army has pressed into my territory (in Old Calabim lands). My army, other than Saverous wins the footrace thanks to Haste so we are defended.

Auric's horse archers and catapults are really tearing Jonas apart now. He's taking almost 1 city per turn! and is back in the top score spot.

Meet Einion, and open border, I can probably use the overseas trade.

299: Take Orthus' Axe from Falamar's swordmen as I rout his army and retake the border city.

-> Arcane Lore

304: Capture Falamar's current capitol.
-> Optics->Math->Astronomy Hemah will be built in 3 turns! :)
308: Take Innsmouth.
I have crazed shaman and priests standing around in home cities not doing anything. That's annoying.

314: Finished off Falamar. Kept most of his towns and pressed into service most of his workers. Crazed is not too bad when it strikes the lunatics, but even then it's happening too often.
Trade for poisons.
Why isn't life an Alteration node, if it's used in the tower of alteration?

Auric takes Braduk and Jonas capitulates to him.
317: -> Warhorses. Declare war on Capria, blitzing the coastal citys near my Lanun holdings.
Building a second army on the "Homefront" in case of war from Auric.

321: Loony cultist is chasing workboats.

327: Main force is in position Capria's real cities while some newly promoted Sons of Asena mop up the provences. Hemah is setting up some mutation & flesh golems to guard the northern passage near Auric. Flesh golem is much more user-friendly than I remember it from a while ago! Leftover wolf packs are useful to mutate & add promos to the golem.

In the south (food rich Lanun lands) I am drafting battlemasters as precaution against Auric.

Auric just killed Acheron! with a ton of H.Archers and catapults.
-> Engineering

333: Queue up Guild of Hammers and Bazaar of Mammon. Otherwise, spamming units.
Added a Hawk to the fleshgolem for +1 movement. That's pretty awesome.
-> Bowyers

335: Capria surrenders to Auric, and Auric/Jonas/Capria declare war on me. It'll be dicey for a bit, Auric's stack is about 30 veteran units, he's attacking in the South by Innsmouth. Hope to catch him on a tsunami-able tile. I'm not recalling the troops from Bannor lands yet.

Make some trades with Einion.

342: Capria's down to three citys. Auric has taken about half of Lanun lands from me.
War weariness is starting to kick in a little, queue in some dungeons.
-> Machinery (13 turns)

352: First squad of bison riders hunt down the remnants of Bannor while the balance of the forces Haste back to the southern front against Auric. I've lost 4 formerly Lanun cities but my draftees and javelineers have bled Auric of all his highly promoted horse archers and most of his catapults. His reinforcing wave contains a bunch of (green) champions, and the Baron, but shouldn't be able to make anymore breakthroughs. Even if I can only fight him to a draw in the south I am about to open a new front in the North with Hemah, Fleshgolem and the War Machine leading the charge. Should be fun, but the outcome no longer in doubt.
 
Jet: thanks for hosting this game, no doubt partially for my benefit from my last thread!

But yes, I think I start to understand how the Doviello strategy works now. Thanks everyone!
 
Welcome to today's episode of Monkeyfinger's First Game Ever As A Barbarian Leader!

I'm doing this on immortal.

My writeup will be more B^U than those of others who did the same. It will contain stuff that's obvious to players of our caliber. This is for the benefit of people inexperienced with the doviello, people who want more details as to know how we do it, whatever.

Spoiler :
I move my settler east. After a turn of exploring I find a relatively nice spot:



Utter garbage by sheer virture of the fact that there are no flood plains, but that seems true of this entire stretch of territory, and with riverside health bonus, a good number of hills, a good food resource, and some happiness+commerce boosters, it's as good a salvage job as I'll get.

Opening build order is 5 beastmen, then worker, then another beastman, then a settler.

So I find some Amurites or something, and their capital is on a hill, and one of their surrounding squares is unforested flatland, meaning I can get a clear view of its defensers by parking Lucian here...



I send my beastmen to surround Cevedes's borders. I wait for a settler to appear in Cevedes. It happens on turn 49. He heads east with a bunch of defenders. Cevedes has 3 guards, time to strike. I attack with 5 beastmen and Lucian. Lose 3 beastmen and kill all defenders. Amurite civilization destroyed.

Boring stuff happens till turn 100, at which point Rhoanna sends a truly mighty army to test my barbarian might and break me like a twig:



(This always happens in Ice. Enemy AI sends puny stack at you early. You crush it. You have some turns to send a counterattack and take a city or two or however many you can afford. If you don't counterattack they will not talk peace, and the next stack they send will mean business.)

Turn 102: Hurr lol stasis

Well then. Now Rhoanna can't build new troops to repel my counterattack. Sweet. No new improvements built by workers are gonna do much for the next few turns, so I have them start spamming roads, including to Hippus lands. My beastmen and a decently promoted lucian get to Hippus lands. They've got 4 cities, all with just 2 or 3 guards. 3 cities fall easily, 4th one's defenders spill some doviello blood but eventually die. No more hippus. When all's said and done it looks like this.



Though I'm dude what's supposed to raze stuff, I kept every city because all their fat crosses have resources no other city in my empire has.

Altheriol: Dye, Gems
Radonnor: Pigs, Elephants
Conrond: Rice, Sugar
Feiss: Reagents (you can barely see them off to the far right)

River of blood is cast on turn 148. I don't really notice. Cool in the long run though. Thanks for making my journey to 1.5x the second place civ's score even longer, Alexis, I really appreciate it.

I start pact of the nilhorn in Urslo. If I can get the stooges, sweet. If not, I get a nice shot of gold to help my economy as the wonder cancels. Sweet.

I tech up for a while, till turn 198. Only notable event is me being beaten to the pact with 4 turns left on it. Eh, I get around 400 gold as compensation. Worse has happened.

I pick Alexis as my next target. She was gettin pretty advanced and I'd hate myself forever if I let her reach feudalism. I round up 10 bronze wielding sons of asena and go to work:



Turn 202, Veil is founded. Turn 203, Jonas adopts it. Turn 204, prophescy of ragnarok is built. Well dog's balls. Between this and city razing, I'm going to have to deal wiwth some serious AC.

Speaking of religion, I figured out in advance that I wanted a military victory, and you know, religion can really help there. So did I follow in Jonas's footsteps and pact with demons to help me? Or look towards the sea for power? Or give into my bond with the savageries of nature and turn to leaves? Nah.



I repended on my evil, savage ways, and turned towards the path of meditation, enlightenemnt, and kindness.

(Anyone who believed the above sentence, go control panel -> Add or Remove Programs -> Sid Meier's Civilization 4 - Beyond the Sword. The real reason for my path begins with C and ends with halid. Also, temples that boost research are nice, since, uh... yeah. Barbarian and all.)

So yeah, I'm kind of nervous about a backstab from Jonas at this point. I'm not evil anymore, and there's a heathen religion penalty at work. Better move my army to his border ASAP. I sue for peace with alexis after reducing her to a collection of crappy desert cities.



More later.
 
Has anyone NOT had auric be the high scorer by around turn 200? It's surprising how consistent this is.

Also, it seems people who started on the river (I didn't, because I hadn't seen it) did significantly better than otherwise, which is not horribly surprising, but I think strengthens the import of getting a good starting city (That can get econ).

Lastly.. MonkeyFinger, I notice you are researching education on turn 30, I assume you hutted either AC or Agriculture.
 
So far, I gotta say that cramming a standard map with 2 extra AIs really stacks the deck in favor of a leader like Charadon. With much closer neighbors than normal, an early rush is quite a bit more economically viable. I'm usually leery about doing super early rushes on the highest levels even if it appears I can get away with it, because the maintenance HURTS early.

Lastly.. MonkeyFinger, I notice you are researching education on turn 30, I assume you hutted either AC or Agriculture.

No, I'm playing patch O with its adjusted tech costs, and made agriculture and AC my first priorities. I didn't hut any techs.

Has anyone NOT had auric be the high scorer by around turn 200? It's surprising how consistent this is.

Not surprising to me. The game lacks:

Hippus (after I got through with em)
Elohim
Balseraphs
Hannah

And one of the other typical high-powered AI players, the Calabim, is stuck in some suckass desert tghat no one can make anything good out of.

Auric's got no competition, in short. Except for Jonas who he keeps trading the top AI spot with.
 
Ahh, I haven't played with O yet, so I guess it is actually fairly effective at moving the early game along. I'm actually a little excited now to try it. I seem to recall that on Immortal before it'd take something like 48 turn at ~10 sci a turn to get AC and Ag. If it only takes 30, that's pretty nice.
 
Really short update:

I got hit with Blight and Raging Seas within 2 turns of each other. :(
 
This is interesting reading. What I really would like to know, for those playing this, is how much of a difference Charadon vs. Mahala has on your game. What is easier, what is more difficult? What strategies did you use that were particular to Charadon? Could you have used the same strategy with Mahala, but even better?

As an example, in Monkeyfinger's game he was beaten to Pact of the Nilhorn by 4 turns. If he was playing Mahala, he likely would have been able to get the wonder, as he'd have the tech a little faster. That's one point where Mahala would be more effective.

If those who are doing writeups would take a little time to point out which elements of their strategy were impacted by the choice of Charadon vs. Mahala, I'd be very interested in reading it.
 
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