What do you think of Sweden?

Athenaeum

Prince
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
599
I havent really explored them, but my immediate thoughts are that I would be kind of hesitant to waste a GP on a city-state ally.

However, if you were willing to practically ignore tourism, you could waste your musicians on them, or admirals if you didnt need a navy.

Anyone have different thoughts on them, or has anyone developed an awesome strategy with them?

BQ: When city states gift u GPs from Patronage finisher, do they up the cost of future GPs or are they legitimately free?
 
Great Generals and Prophets after three uses...


When I play Sweden, I really don't war too much until I get Caroleans. Then I go on a rampage and all the generals I get go to CS. During the game, when I use prophets to spread my religion, I donate them after three uses to a CS. Also, capturing prophets and donating them is a good use. Great Admirals will work good, too, but I don't get them as often as generals. Every other great person is generally more useful as a tile improvement, bulbing, or great work.
 
I can say that on Emperor, Sweden worked very well for me. The city state bonuses really start to add up, they last for a long time, especially if you open Patronage, and you can strategically choose which city states to gift the unit to, which can complete other city state quests. Basically, for most of the game, I was allied with every city state, and when you start getting those bonuses early, they really help.
 
Sweden are great. As MarauderCH says - its Great Generals you're going to be sending (and prophets). Play tall and focus on getting specialists. Make friends with as many people as you can but try and keep a common enemy throughout the game. When you go to war with him your aim is not to annihilate him but to destroy his units earning GG's. You then gift them to CS's and perma-ally everyone! This gives you the ability to win any type of victory - diplomatic is the easiest but you can easily win Scientific (big cities because of food/happiness from CS alliances), and you should have loads of GP for cultural victory as well.
 
It's not a waste to gift them. You'll have more than you need anyway. Sweden are my favourite civ. I like to go full Honor and gift unwanted Great Generals to Cultural CS. Or go Tradition/Tall and gift Writers to Maritime CS. CS alliances are the most valuable commodities in the game.
 
Apart from the UA, which everyone have mentioned. I found the caroleans really fun. Build up like 10 caroleans, then upgrade them all to infantry once I hit plastic. Since this is perfectly in the optimal science tech path, I can get very ahead in tech, the AIs are probably still using rifle or even musket, difficulty is immortal btw. These march upgraded infantries are absolutely indestructible, heal every turns, just walk over everything, I don't even bring an artillery or any ranged unit. It's stupidly fun just watch them walk over everything and the AIs couldn't do anything.
 
What I did when I went for Cultural with Sweden is just utterly, utterly abuse the +10% to Great People per friendship.

It was on a huge map, and I legitimately had +90% or +100% to great people constantly through the game.

THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP!
 
I already thought about the great prophet idea. The great general one sounds good too.

In general, are great generals the most swiftly earned GP (assuming someone is at war)?

I wish I could explore this stuff on my own but my computer is broken at the moment.
 
The thing about sweden is they have 2 UU's, and in that regard somewyat geared towards war...which is not very good for making friendships, especially with AI's.

I thought though that it would be nice to get a great admiral with the liberty finisher, explore the world so you can host the WC, and then donate that Admiral to a CS. That way it wouldnt up the cost of more important great people such as scientists, engineers, etc
 
I havent really explored them, but my immediate thoughts are that I would be kind of hesitant to waste a GP on a city-state ally.

I know! Seems very wasteful on it’s face, but yes, it is worth it. (But prolly not GS and GE.)

The thing about sweden is they have 2 UU's, and in that regard somewyat geared towards war...which is not very good for making friendships, especially with AI's.

Yes, the UA is conflicted, which is part of the fun of playing them! But you can be at war and earning GG points while still being friends with most of the AIs. You don't need to be winning, and you actually don't want to take cities (since that hurts friendship chances). You just need to be fighting, so pick your enemies carefully!
 
Sweden can be quite a strong civ when played effectively, and I've also found them to be one of the most enjoyable civs, as the provide a variety of opportunities for strategic decision making and unorthodox strategies that simply aren't available to other civs.

Expanding on what others have said about Great Prophets, I've found that Sweden works remarkably well as a religious civ. My early game goal, when playing Sweden, is usually to create a religion that generates as much :c5faith: as possible. Pilgrimage (+2 :c5faith: per foreign follower city, including city states) is a great founder choice (Papal Primacy- seems like a synergistic choice, but by the time you can make effective use of it your resting influence point won't actually make much difference) and Pagodas and Mosques are amazing if you can get them, as is Divine Inspiration (+2 :c5faith: per world wonder) if your staring terrain and difficulty settings make world wonders a viable option. When you enhance, choose Messiah, which will allow you to buy more great prophets as well as increasing their conversion strength. Once you have this religion founded, spread it as widely as possible, focusing particularly on city states (this will slow your influence decay, as well as potentially fulfilling quests), switching from missionaries to Great Prophets when the former begin to become expensive and gifting your Great Prophets when they have one use remaining. Once they too become prohibitively expensive, you can start stockpiling faith for industrial era Great People. This strategy does depend on founding a religion (probably through a faith generating pantheon, opening honor and gifting your free great general to a religious city state is possible, but delaying your main social policy tree by two policies is a pretty steep cost) and takes a while to get going, but once it does, it will allow you build up a massive empire of allied city states.

Though Sweden itself did not change with the release of BNW, the mechanical changes in this expansion were a massive indirect buff. Splitting Great Artists into three types and tracking each one's cost separately allows you to generate a huge number of great people in a game, to the point where it actually feels too easy to keep allied with every city state on the map. And rather then simply generating resources and contributing to a diplomatic victory, your city state allies will allow you to control the World Congress giving you a wide variety of choices to strengthen your civ or hinder your rivals (be sure to pass World Ideology if you've been using your artists for influence rather than creating great works).

As for Sweden's military focus, it really encourages you to be aware of the global diplomatic situation and to choose your friends and enemies carefully. Picking fights with one or two aggressive civs that have already made lots of enemies (often Atilla, Shaka, Genghis Khan... ) can actually win you a lot of friends, as well as giving you the opportunity to earn great generals and admirals (gifting all but one or two to city states). Hakkapeliittas are something of a niche unit, and I've never found them exceptionally useful, but Caroleans are quite strong, and the fact that they get march without having to build up three promotions in the same category frees you up to take promotions like medic and cover.

The great person bonus from declarations of friendship isn't quite as strong as it sounds at first (since each great person costs more than the previous one, +10% :c5greatperson: doesn't actually mean 10% more great people), but it certainly helps, whether you chose to gift the great people or use them yourself. It's also one of only a few civ-specific bonuses to great artist, writer and musician production, so you could play Sweden quite effectively as a cultural civ if you don't gift these great people to city states.

Overall, I think that Sweden is an exceptionally strong civ, second only to the likes of Babylon, Korea and Poland, capable of dominating the diplomatic game in a way that only Greece can rival while also possessing a very a strong late-midgame military, and a UA that can be used to enhance virtually any strategy.
 
expensive and gifting your Great Prophets when they have one use remaining. Once they too become prohibitively expensive, you can start stockpiling faith for industrial era Great People. This strategy does depend on founding a religion (probably through a faith generating pantheon, opening honor and gifting your free great general to a religious city state is possible, but delaying your main social policy tree by two policies is a pretty steep cost) and takes a while to get going, but once it does, it will allow you build up a massive empire of allied city states.

.

A) Why not just build Stonehenge for early Faith? It is not very competitive (at least among humans)

B) Why not make Honor your main social policy tree? You might argue Tradition is better, but I don't see much reason why you couldn't pick Honor over Liberty. Use your GG to a culture city-state, and fill out Patronage ASAP before Rationalism becomes available.
 
Also I thought it would stack really well if you could get friends with just about everyone on the map, and do research agreements with the Porcelain Tower.

And for some reason, I'm kind of OCD/hesitant to start wars with people without the intention of taking cities. I don't know it just feels weird, but I would try it with sweden.
 
A) Why not just build Stonehenge for early Faith? It is not very competitive (at least among humans)

Yes, I should have mentioned that Stonehenge is another good option, provided you have a solid production start. The +5 :c5faith: will usually get you a religion, and the GE :c5greatperson: lets you start leveraging your UA early and grab another wonder not too far down the road (Temple of Artemis is also amazing with +10%:c5food: and another GE :c5greatperson:, but obviously going for two early game wonders is a risky play and not something you can pull off every game).

B) Why not make Honor your main social policy tree? You might argue Tradition is better, but I don't see much reason why you couldn't pick Honor over Liberty. Use your GG to a culture city-state, and fill out Patronage ASAP before Rationalism becomes available.

I could see either Honor or Piety working for Sweden (Piety won't guarantee you a religion but it has some solid bonuses for a religion heavy game. Glory to God synergizes well with a faith spamming strategy, letting you buy 8 different types of great person, each starting at 1000 :c5faith:, and Sacred Sites (+2:tourism: from pagodas, mosques etc.) can help with a culture victory or compensate for giving your great artists to city states. Honor, of course, will be helpful if you pursue a more military oriented strategy and generate extra great generals. The left side of this tree does seem much more important than the right for Sweden, so depending on your culture output it may be feasible to squeeze these in with another strategy.
Prioritizing either of these choices, however, means passing up tradition. As Sweden, you want to build up a tall empire so that you can run plenty of specialists to generate :c5greatperson:, and that's exactly what tradition is good for. Whatever strategy you're pursuing, you can't forget to also keep your empire growing. Tradition helps start that in a way that Honor and Piety simply don't, and this is especially important for a weak early game power like Sweden. That's not to say that Honor and Piety's interactions with Sweden aren't worth exploring, but if your goal is to beat other human players or win on the highest possible difficulty level, I think that Tradition is simply too good to pass up.
 
I am hoping to try a Deity Sweden game myself, aiming for SV. My first try at Deity was a pretty smooth DiploV with them, but I have since been struggling with Deity generally.

If I am not able to found, I will probably abandon the game since I do think a religion is particularly important for them. I don’t think I will try filling out Piety though. Also, Stonehenge no longer seems feasible in SP.
 
I tried a Sweden emperor game where I only adopted Honor (not Tradition or Liberty) and I had no problem with specialists. I usually don't need to worry too much about having enough food for specialists and growth. I think a lot of the Tradition growth bonuses are overrated. Besides the free Aqueducts (which don't contribute to overall food production, so it has limited application towards specialists anyways), the only growth bonus your non-capital cities receive is a +15% food bonus. That's not a big deal IMO.
 
Well done. I still think that Tradition is the strongest choice (it's the bonuses to the capital that are most important -you end up with +2 :c5food:, 25% growth and -50%:c5unhappy: there, on top of the aqueducts and the :c5gold:, :c5culture: and wonder boosts), but that has as much to do with overall game balance as it does with Sweden specifically, and its certainly possible (and a lot more exciting) to be successful with other strategies.
 
Well one reason I adopted Honor was because of the early Great General, which translates into a really early city-state ally. I filled out the entire Honor tree before turn 50, which was pretty awesome. That left me plenty of time to go Patronage before Renaissance, when I want to start adopting Rationalism.

But what are the culture boosts from Tradition honestly? That seems to be an overwhelming consensus on here, that Tradition is OP. Is it really? I admit it's good, and probably better than liberty...but what culture bonuses does it give? A free amphitheater? That's +1 culture and saving you the turns it would take to build one for a great work slot.

Anyways that's a different conversation, but either way I did just fine without adopting Tradition nor Liberty which surprised me too.

Then again, it was only Emperor though.
 
I have difficulty getting enough Carolinas to make much of a difference. Even getting Rifling earlier than usual and delaying the GWI tech (I forget which it is) did not leave me many turns to hard build them. Since iron is not reliable, is the idea to get gun power early and spam muskets?

If I am not able to found, I will probably abandon the game since I do think a religion is particularly important for them. I don’t think I will try filling out Piety though.

I should have stuck to my plans to rage quit iff no religion. I played two Sweden games (Deity, Pangaea Plus, raging barbs, everything standard) both were reasonably close SV losses (which, unfortunately, is a common scenario with me). And in neither game did I found, even though both had decent pantheon dirt (but neither was tundra).

But what are the culture boosts from Tradition honestly? That seems to be an overwhelming consensus on here, that Tradition is OP. Is it really? I admit it's good, and probably better than liberty...but what culture bonuses does it give? A free amphitheater? That's +1 culture and saving you the turns it would take to build one for a great work slot.

Tradition is OP because of the buffs for growth. That said, the culture buffs are also quite decent. Culture boosts from Tradition are the opener (3cpt), three free monuments (3x2cpt), and one free amphitheater (another 3cpt). By comparison, in the ancient era, a cultural CS ally gives you 6cpt. The Honor GG on its own then is 30 turns x 6cpt plus 30 turns x 3 cpt, so 270 culture total. During those 60 turns, the Tradition player got 720 culture from their social policies. Honor has the culture buff from killing barbs, but not really close is it?
 
Top Bottom