gunboat diplomacy?
- Thread starter katfish
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Pythakoreas
Chef Tain
Pythakoreas
Chef Tain
BTW I have absolutely NO idea on how tribute demanding system works and I won't even bother to check anything.
GoodSarmatian
Jokerfied Western Male
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- Apr 25, 2006
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I don't understand the OP. Air units count towards your military strength and make bullying easier, but it's not really possible to station them near or inside CS border.
My city with 30 bombers was exactly 5 tiles away it still doesn't count near? Also CS wont react to carriers full of bombers right at their door.
DemonMaster
A.K.A. Fenhorn
Gunboat works if you could demand tribute but do not so lets see how tribute works.
Info taken from sdk (I found it on another forum).
First off, the negatives:
And the positives:
Edit: If I read this correctly and you are trying to use demand tribute on a for example hostile (non-militaristic) CS then it has a value of -120. If you (with five civs) are ranked 3rd most powerful civ you got a +60 points. So if you want to bully this CS you need to get 61 more. If your military power compared to the CS are for example x2 you will get another 80 points for a total of 140. Congratulation you can demand tribute (or use gunboat diplomacy). If this was to demand tribute, the CS will get another value of -300, for a total of -420, which makes it impossible to demand tribute for those 10 turns that the -300 lasts.
Info taken from sdk (I found it on another forum).
First off, the negatives:
- First off is the base reluctance of -110
- If your non-war influence is less than -30, take a -300 penalty
- If you're trying to bully for a unit (aka worker) and the city state is less than size 4, -300
- Otherwise if you're trying to bully for a worker take off -30
- If you've bullied the city state within the last 10 turns, -300
- For bullying within the last 20 turns, -40
- If the city has an ally, -10
- If the city has a pledge of protection, -20
- If the city is militaristic, -10
- If the city is hostile, -10
And the positives:
- Overall military power of all remaining major civs is ranked, with the first place getting 100 and the remaining getting decreasing amounts of 100 / [number of civs]. For example, for 5 civs this is 100/80/60/40/20
- Local military power in a radius of 5 (increases with larger map sizes) around the city state is compared. Depending on the ratio of the power of your units and the city state units, you get 100 / 80 / 60 / 40 / 20 for 3x / 2x / 1.5x / 1x / 0.5x the power
Edit: If I read this correctly and you are trying to use demand tribute on a for example hostile (non-militaristic) CS then it has a value of -120. If you (with five civs) are ranked 3rd most powerful civ you got a +60 points. So if you want to bully this CS you need to get 61 more. If your military power compared to the CS are for example x2 you will get another 80 points for a total of 140. Congratulation you can demand tribute (or use gunboat diplomacy). If this was to demand tribute, the CS will get another value of -300, for a total of -420, which makes it impossible to demand tribute for those 10 turns that the -300 lasts.
While that is all nice and good, what i asked is why 30+ bombers count as +0 for military forces near City State.
DemonMaster
A.K.A. Fenhorn
If the CS has a "defense" against tribute/gunboat of for example -150 and your military power compared to the military power of the CS (within five tiles range) is x3 (or more) then you will get +100 for that. This is added to the up to +100 points for your civs ranking compared to other civs. So if your ranking gives you for example 40 points. Then you do not get any gunboat diplomacy bonus.
More than military power x3 does not give you more points than 100, so your 30 bombers will get you 100 points, but if you ranking is not high enough you will not get so many points for that. The "aggressor" can only get 200 points total, 100 points for having x3 or more units near the CS and 100 points for having the most pointiest stick in the world.
Teadrinker
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2011
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- 38
So effectively the tenet is useless?
DemonMaster
A.K.A. Fenhorn
I went Autocracy in my latest game and I had six CSs near my land and got 5.? influence each turn. I had over 200 to 400 influence with them and was ally with all of them, just by sitting there. I hardly call that useless.
I was rank two or three with my army (yielding +83 to +66). So I had to have the CSs power x1 (+40) to x3 (+100), depending on CS, near them, several of my units where within 5 tiles of several CS so I didn't have to "sacrifice" that many units. And in my last war (mid Atomic Era), the war took place around these CSs so it wasn't any sacrifice at all.
Won a diplomatic victory (and got my Axis Powered achievement).
Edit: And of course it is situational, like so many other things in Civ games. I just happened to have a lot of CS around me.
Dentalfury
Warlord
I wouldn't really say that it's useless. I've gone Autocracy 2 or 3 times so far in my BNW games (Freedom/Order always seemed more appropriate to my games) and whenever I picked up Gunboat Diplomacy the effects seemed pretty broken. I left a single artillery in between 2 CS's and was able to make both my ally with over 400 influence by end of game. Now I had a massive army, as Shaka, and took over my super-continent in stages for happiness reasons, so all it really took was 1 local unit combined with my overall military score and you get an unbeatable CS influence machine. Even Treaty Organization that Freedom has is pretty limited by using the precious few trade routes to maintain your standing with a single CS.
However, the aircraft angle mentioned by the OP is somewhat true. I've never noticed that a CS will react to have a large amount of aircraft positioned somewhere beyond the fact that the aircraft contributed to my overall military score. Personally, I would love to see an option to base your aircraft in a CS ally. This happens all the time in the real world so I have to scratch my head a bit on why there is little to no options with CS and aircraft.
GoodSarmatian
Jokerfied Western Male
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2006
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- 9,408
Then air units apparently only count for overall military strength. Could be intentional, could be an oversight.
I guess it's useless on higher difficulties where you just can't afford to keep up with AI militaries, but it works well below immortal. It's one of the best policies in the overall lackluster autocracy ideology.
This is me using twelve ships to convince five city states (including Sofia) that I'm a really cool guy. The text says influence will change until it rests at 10, but that's a mistake. It's constantly rising.
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Teadrinker
Chieftain
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- Jun 8, 2011
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Ok i get it. You decide to switch from domination to diplo victory and use your troops to win over the CS, or you are on break from war and during the downtime you can pick up a few allies.
I was just looking at it from the point of view of being at war, i wouldn't have much use for it.
I was just looking at it from the point of view of being at war, i wouldn't have much use for it.
I'm trying to use gunboat diploamcy and just cant get the local military to allocate any points. Do you or anyone have any idea how the ratio of your units to the CS units goes? I've read were some people can put one powerful unit by a CS and will get a point value for it but it doesn't seem to work with a bunch of units. Does it seem strange that 12 Lancers don't have any local influence over a few CS GWI?
Aaron90495
King
Doesn't seem strange to me, since a few GWI could probably hold off 12 Lancers. At the very least, there's no way the Lancers could take the city.
So the city combat strength is a component of the ratio.
DemonMaster
A.K.A. Fenhorn
Perhaps not, but your army as a total is counted for the military power position and half of the pressure against a CS comes from that (pre-fallpatch).
Securion
Civ Veteran
Not if you have a lot of CSs close to you, and a decent army/navy to stay close to them with.
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