Endgame Tedium–My Experience

Spoiler :
adwcta said:
That's the Diplo game though. If you're trying to be world leader, you have to win over the other civs. If he REALLY cares about that one city state, and you want him to vote for you... stay away from it, let him have it... What the AI cares about is a bit random, but they're pretty consistent about caring about it.

Just because the world is full of crazy people doesn't mean we don't still have democratic elections.
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It doesn't seem to matter though. For example, On turn 321 China came to me to complain about my influence with Hong Kong. She was the only thing close to an ally that I had, so I apologized and left the CS alone. on turn 455 she still held it against me, even though I hadn't even spoken to Hong Kong for a good 600 some years. She was at neutral for some reason:confused: even though our relationship looked like this:
They happily adopted your religion in the majority of your cities.
You have traded recently
You have no contested borders
They like your world congress proposition
You both adopted freedom as your ideology
:mad:You are competing for favor with the same city states!:mad:
Neutral. That doesn't even make any sense. It was like the game wasn't letting her get to friendly because it didn't want me to have a single ally.
 
kaltorak said:
Spaceship Victory = makes your empire powerful through science
Conquest Victory = makes your empire powerful through military domination
Diplo Victory = Less than the others but still, gives you lots of allies, makes you safer by having friends, and gives you many city states bonuses
old Culture Victory = makes your empire powerful by policy bonuses
new Culture Victory = just makes rivals a bit unhappy... MEH
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You forgot about city flipping in culture victory.
 
From what I've seen, I also got the impression that diplo victory was in fact not improved that much, which is really a disappointment, because that was one of the major goals of the WC, as it was presented. I think it would have been more fun, if the World Leader thing had gone over several rounds:
  1. Selecting nominees: Only two civs can be candidates, perhaps three on larger maps or when many civs are still available. Civs can vote for themselves in this round, and CS votes for their allies.
  2. Voting for leader: Only civs not nominated can vote in this round, and each civ has 1 vote and only one vote - CS doesn't vote. Civs will vote for whoever of the candiates they like best. You can give them money in order to gain positive influence, but monetary gifts will only give you one positive modifier, which will have to be added to all other modifiers present between your civs when determining who they vote for.
The advantage of something like this would be that money and City-States allies can guarantee you a place on the list of nominees for World Leader, but you will not get the majority of votes among the nominees if you've been a total a-hole entire game.
 
The WC is just the end game mechanic of a lot of cost and work. No need to make it any more complex.
 
kaspergm said:
From what I've seen, I also got the impression that diplo victory was in fact not improved that much, which is really a disappointment, because that was one of the major goals of the WC, as it was presented. I think it would have been more fun, if the World Leader thing had gone over several rounds:
  1. Selecting nominees: Only two civs can be candidates, perhaps three on larger maps or when many civs are still available. Civs can vote for themselves in this round, and CS votes for their allies.
  2. Voting for leader: Only civs not nominated can vote in this round, and each civ has 1 vote and only one vote - CS doesn't vote. Civs will vote for whoever of the candiates they like best. You can give them money in order to gain positive influence, but monetary gifts will only give you one positive modifier, which will have to be added to all other modifiers present between your civs when determining who they vote for.
The advantage of something like this would be that money and City-States allies can guarantee you a place on the list of nominees for World Leader, but you will not get the majority of votes among the nominees if you've been a total a-hole entire game.
Click to expand...

I think this is a great idea.
 
Endgame is still awful and tedious. It's even more boring now that the AI doesn't declare war. Now, I just sit and hit enter a bunch of times until my tourism takes over and the game ends.

Ugh.
 
If you want the diplo game to be better you need to focus on the CS themselves.

Change the nature of obtaining allies so that long term gpt relationships are better than gifts. possibly restrict the amount that you can do with gifts

Give per turn influence penalties for being at war with anyone with enough influence to be a friend of the CS.
 
Silock said:
Endgame is still awful and tedious. It's even more boring now that the AI doesn't declare war. Now, I just sit and hit enter a bunch of times until my tourism takes over and the game ends.

Ugh.
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They totally do. I got backstabbed late game by an ally (share religion and everything, just not ideology). Emperor. It was the Netherlands, I thought he was a loyal personality =/ Where's Genghis when you need him....

Fortunately for me, I upgraded my navy from treimes to ironclads in 2 turns and proceeded to wreck his sea beggar fleet. He had no army.... just a ton of ships (continents map, we were on the same continent, neighbors, but separated by a huge mountain range, so no way to get to me by land).
 
The End game seems to have the most all out war to me... but yea I agree adwcta, it doesn't make sense going back to the Civ Vanilla strategy where everyone is allowed to vote for themselves for a Diplomatic Victory. City state allies should still be able to vote for the winner, but the base delegates ought to not be able to vote for themselves.

But the World Congress is a ton of fun, particularly from a multiplayer standpoint. The problem is when playing with good players the techs can go so fast/warmongers can make it so the World Congress only has a short life span in Multi
 
kaspergm said:
From what I've seen, I also got the impression that diplo victory was in fact not improved that much, which is really a disappointment, because that was one of the major goals of the WC, as it was presented. I think it would have been more fun, if the World Leader thing had gone over several rounds:
  1. Selecting nominees: Only two civs can be candidates, perhaps three on larger maps or when many civs are still available. Civs can vote for themselves in this round, and CS votes for their allies.
  2. Voting for leader: Only civs not nominated can vote in this round, and each civ has 1 vote and only one vote - CS doesn't vote. Civs will vote for whoever of the candiates they like best. You can give them money in order to gain positive influence, but monetary gifts will only give you one positive modifier, which will have to be added to all other modifiers present between your civs when determining who they vote for.
The advantage of something like this would be that money and City-States allies can guarantee you a place on the list of nominees for World Leader, but you will not get the majority of votes among the nominees if you've been a total a-hole entire game.
Click to expand...

Great idea! I would still have CS votes count maybe they can be less important tthan major civ votes or something ...
 
It would be good if you have the same ideology as another civ and are Dominant over them, that they would have to vote for you as World Leader and for all your proposals. It's not like East Germany was voting for anything the Soviet Union didn't like, was it?
 
Cymsdale said:
I don't see a problem with this:
Spaceship Victory = Beakers
Conquest Victory = Hammers
Culture Victory = Purple Scroll Thingies (now Suitcases)
Diplo Victory = Gold

I don't want Diplo to be some weird roleplaying victory.
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those remembering me abou civilization revolution
 
I like the new culture system. Tourism gives you a way to influence other civs once idealogies come around. I was playing a conquest game with Assyria and adopted autocracy very early (thanks to all those free techs). I already had popular culture with the two remaining civs (only Russia had their capital) and was able to get autocracy as the world idealogy. The turn after Russia adopted freedom BAM! -40 happiness and barbarians spawning constantly. Pair that up with me starting the international games the turn I DOWed Russia and it made for a VERY easy rush to her capital.

Everyone is complaining about the new culture win not giving you bonuses through social policies, but what do great works and artifacts yield? +2 tourism... And +2 culture. I was still getting new policies every 14 turns or so despite my sprawling empire.

I do agree with the diplo win stuff though. I feel like the vote needs to be between two civs. I like the nomination idea mentioned above. All leaders should also get a diplo penalty with whoever voted for the other guy to really divide those lines. :D
 
Cymsdale said:
I don't see a problem with this:
Spaceship Victory = Beakers
Conquest Victory = Hammers
Culture Victory = Purple Scroll Thingies (now Suitcases)
Diplo Victory = Gold

I don't want Diplo to be some weird roleplaying victory.
Click to expand...

In my book its actually:

Spaceship Victory = Beakers and gold (you can rushbuy with freedom)
Conquest Victory = Beakers and gold (up to date military and rushbuys i neglect production completely)
Culture Victory = Beakers gold and hammers (Science for the wonders to go to Renaissance as soon as possible, rush buys and hammers to build wonders).
Diplo victory = Beakers gold and faith(beakers to unlock the trade routes and gp production buildings and gold&faith for cs).
 
Have to agree with this - although I really enjoy a lot of the changes, cultural and diplomatic need some work. I won a diplomatic victory as Japan (lol) on Emperor in a game where I was actually going for a cultural victory simply because I had sufficient excess gold from not really having an army that I just went around buying up city states and voted myself world leader. It had nothing to do with diplomacy. Culture actually seemed much more rewarding, since as I began to influence civilizations they started mass Revolutioning from Order (which all of them were) to Freedom (which I was). That system seems to have a lot of potential; the only problem right now is it requires way too much tourism to cause those drastic effects, such that if you see them, you've basically already won. I think the effects should be drastically increased in Civ's with borders/trading, at least double the current effect. And it should scale better/feel more organic.

But diplomatic victory sucks now (the rest of the system is really good, which makes you wonder why victory is so bad).
 
I'm actually pretty surprised at how many people had the same experience I did. Early reports from previewers, reviewers, and players all raved about how much less tedious the late game was. Where'd they all go? :confused:

My current game is on Pangaea, so I'll see if that changes things. Although I may have to reroll because of how tedious winning culture is when it turns out you're competing with culture-oriented Persia, Polynesia, and Brazil.:crazyeye:
 
Lyoncet said:
I'm actually pretty surprised at how many people had the same experience I did. Early reports from previewers, reviewers, and players all raved about how much less tedious the late game was. Where'd they all go? :confused:

My current game is on Pangaea, so I'll see if that changes things. Although I may have to reroll because of how tedious winning culture is when it turns out you're competing with culture-oriented Persia, Polynesia, and Brazil.:crazyeye:
Click to expand...

I really want to start a new game, but my last one was so painful that I think I need to hold off for a while. Idk why, but it just left a bad taste in my mouth.
 
Diplomatic Victories have always felt cheap in Civ games, and they still feel cheap in BNW. It's back to being an economic victory, and I'm not sure how the devs will ever make it feel satisfying, because it hasn't felt like an earned victory since it was introduced (Civ III).
Personally, I find the new cultural victory more interesting, but now the space race feels kind of boring. Oh well.
 
Lyoncet, what difficulty level? If the AI is more active late game at higher difficulties,,then that would force us to work more, at least in theory.

I'm going to start playing a real game soon on immortal before I tell you guys 'I told you so'. :)
 
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