Looking for Tips on Deity

Hello Everyone,

I was wondering if anyone could share some insight on how to win a match on deity on FFH2.

I'm new to this mod but I've beaten it on prince and monarch with Ljolsafar and Grigori respectively.

I used strategies that I've read from these threads and they worked great, but on Deity I cannot seem to manage my civ well enough and my research and commerce collapse before it even started.

Not to mention the never-ending waves of barbs, which is fun because I can manage to hold them off, but as soon as a neighbor knocks on my door I'm dead.

I'm interested in anything you have to say. Any victory is fine too. I normally play on Erubus/ Normal/ Standard/ Deity but any suggestions to map types is welcome.

Thanks!

I'd say the main/key ways to get conquest wins on diety:

1. promotions: quality over quantity (get highly promoted units or heroes, enough units to protect them, and eliminate the AI with them)

2. expansion: stay as close to even as you can in quantity of cities with the AI (if you get surrounded/overwhelmed by AI cities, it's near impossible to win)

3. "cheat1": check on the 'new random seed on load' option, and use save-load, to get combat wins and/or good hut/lair/etc outcomes

4. "cheat2": explore the entire map using your special starting settler and the two other units at the start of the game, devise strategy/tactics/plans, and then reload, with that knowledge.

early game:

general strategy:

'diety' difficulty is very different than 'settler' difficulty. Your city max pop cap is very small (normally around 5 pop), city quantity maintenance is very heavy (REX is usually bad, unless you get/use cartography tech quickly/immediately for the 'city states' civic) ~ meaning it's generally better to create a 'god king' civic SE super city, and lastly unit quantity gets costly fast (generally only ~ 4-5 free units) ~ meaning you can NOT out unit produce the bonus enhanced diety AI (hence the uber value of unit quality: promotions), and lastly the AI gets huge bonuses/modifers/extra-starting-units/faster-tech/etc of course. Also, due to the low max pop cap, happiness is much more important and powerful, as it let's your cities grow, which makes a much bigger difference on diety.

this means that generally it's better to pump out warriors to get promotions (and prevent the AI from getting promotions) from the barbs and/or the AI (remember that you get much more experience for attacking units than from defending against units) and/or to steal workers from the AI instead of you wasting resources to build your own workers when you could be building combat units or buildings. Also, this allows your capitol to grow, and it doesn't take long for it to reach its max pop cap (~ 5 pop), as thus, there's not too much of a big benefit with building a worker first, instead of your warriors or buildings, due to the low max pop cap. Or, build resource buildings for a god king SE super city. Unless the starting area/map really favors building a worker first, it's generally better to build warriors or buildings instead, due to the low max pop cap. Once your city hits the max pop cap, then you can build workers (if you haven't stolen them from the AI, aka still at peace with AI) and/or settlers.

If you want to be really cheatful, wait for the AI to build it's second city, causing him to have his units split up, and wipe out the second city (it's easier due to not having the culture bonus that the capitol has), this reduces him to being roughly equal to you, though you should have the unit promotion advantage, now being able to wipe out his capitol and thus win the game, albiet a very boring stupid win, with warriors. ya, you could let him live to build up for a more interesting/even war, I guess. But, otherwise, winning with warriors is boring, you don't get to enjoy any of the wonderful features of FFH2, lol.

promotions:

*(march is extremely important! get it BEFORE shock II, it's that important! March is how you wipe out AI cities!)

warrior/archer/horse/axeman:

combat I -> shock I/cover I -> combat II/formation I -> combat III -> march* -> shock II/cover II -> combat IV -> combat V -> commando -> drill I -> drill II -> drill III -> drill IV

woodsman I/combat I -> combat I/woodmans I -> shock I/cover I

drill I -> drill II -> drill III -> drill IV -> commando -> woodsman I/guerrila I

scout/hunter:

woodsman I -> combat I -> shock I/cover I -> combat II/formation I -> combat III -> combat IV -> combat V -> commando -> drill I -> drill II -> drill III -> drill IV

combat I -> shock I/cover I -> combat II/woodsman I -> combat III/formation I -> combat IV -> combat V -> commando -> drill I -> drill II -> drill III -> drill IV

tech:

if you're going for a quick win, then tech directly for that tier 2 unit (hunter, axeman, horse, archer, adept, golem) and/or a bonus to strength/summoning (bronze weapons, mana node afinity or enchantment/nature spells or death mana: skeletons, or etc). As if your warriors don't quite eliminate the AI/win the game, your tier 2 unit (or bonus modifier) will mop up what's left of the AI.

otherwise, you need to focus on commerce techs (myst: god king+food+scientist/GS or edu: cottages or fishing/sailing: water tiles or whatever resource tech), as you need to get going on getting more beakers/techs and gold.

various early tech paths:

exploration -> cartography

ancient chants -> mysticism -> agriculture -> calender -> festivals

agriculture -> calender -> festivals

ancient chants/agriculture -> agriculture/ancient chants -> education

exploration -> fishing -> sailing

exploration -> fishing -> ancient chants -> mysticism

exploration -> hunting -> optional: archery

crafting -> mining -> bronze working/archery

crafting -> masonry -> construction

agriculture -> animal husbandry -> horseback riding

ancient chants -> mysticism -> knowledge of the ether -> optional: necromancy

(rush a religion/hero)

strategy focus paths based on starting land:

1. lots of river/grassland/floodplains: god king SE supercity or CE or REX
2. lots of forest/hills: pump warriors or buildings that give resources (beakers, gold, culture, etc)
3. coast+lots of water resources+tiles: heron throne+lighthouse

Commerce/maintainance sources:

trade techs/buildings/wonders/civics:

inn, tavern, Great lighthouse, harbor, foreign trade, etc

commerce/gold techs/civics/religions/buildings/wonders:

city states, aristocracy, foreign trade, god king, guilds (unlimited merchants), mercantilsm, runes of kilmorph temple, tax office, market (festival), gambling house (mathematics), courthouse (code of laws), money changer, bazaar of mammon, deruptus brewing house, tablets of bambur, etc

focus/improvements:

CE/SE/TE (cottages, merchant, priest, great merchant, great prophet, great bard, caste system, etc)

I personally like/use these settings:

custom game:
difficulty: diety
AI: 1 (round) or 1-3 (four corners)
Map: team battleground
Size: duel
climate: termperate
sealevel: medium
era: ancient
Speed: quick
team placement: round / four corners
team setting: N/A
world map: flat

new random seed on reload
no tribal villages

victories: conquest

~ or ~

custom game:
difficulty: settler
AI: 0
Map: team battleground
Size: duel
climate: termperate
sealevel: medium
era: ancient
Speed: quick
team placement: round
team setting: N/A
world map: flat

new random seed on reload

victories: none

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I'll get around to posting more... I've been playing FFH2 again recently, in my free time. So, I'll be posting more guides and etc eventually. Even if this game is dead (aside from those who play it competitively on realms beyond website/forum), meh.

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P.S.

does anyone know if the 'pearls' resource has been removed? Or, does it require certain maps (map scripts)?, as I've not seen them yet as the few times I've played lanun. Or, is my luck just really bad thus far, and I've just not had them in a game yet.

Thanks for the tips Hegemonkhan!

I definitely try to level up my warriors evenly during barb raids but had no idea that attacking yielded more xp than defending.

I should have figured that *March promotion was important. I only focused on Combat and Shock promotions.

The cheats should help immensely. Just so I understand correctly I should save in order to change the outcome of an attack or goodie hut if I don't like it by reloading?

Should I pump settlers immediately or wait for my pop cap?

P.S.

I just started a match as the Lanuns on Archipelago and noticed 3 pearl resources right off the bat.

yes, "save scumming" as I guess it's called by some now (you must have the 'new random seed on reload' option turned on): save -> reload (load), reload (load), etc until favorable outcomes (also you may need to go back a few saves too, as some conflicts you can't win, and need to go back a few saves/turns to alter that unwinnable/undesirable sitaution).

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yes, defending usually only gives 1 exp, whereas attacking can yield 3+ experience (I'm not sure if winning low combat odds, using 'new random seed on reload' option + save->load, increases the exp gained or not)

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only do settlers when you can and only when/if you really need to do so (such as getting a military resource) ... as they're very expensive (unless you got leader with expansive trait), as on diety, you'll likely get crushed by the AI if you try to REX (no military), due to the commerce/trade/etc reqs for dealing with supporting/maintaining multiple cities (city states is uber powerful/necessry for this). Get a powerful capitol (and commerce), then expand as you can, if you really need/want to expand. Though it's better to crush the AI, use your conquest against the AI for expansion (steal workers, get gold for destroying AI cities/improvements, etc). Multiple cities, just takes too much of an investment, which hurts you more than it helps. There is a specific method for doing REX on diety, but it's success depends upon some good luck and perfect play ... not something to rely upon, lol.

basically in short of the above: in general, GET ESTABLISHED (military force + commerce + cartography:city states ready to switch to and/or festivals for building markets, which also allows a merchant too), before or by the time, you build a settler for a second city. You need to be ready to handle expansion, otherwise you're going to bankrupt yourself into a total standstill (military units strike/lost and no tech advancement) and a very very epic defeat, obviously.

seriously, you should try just creating a god king SE super capitol (turn on the 'no settler' option) and watch at how much easier the diety game will be (the AI will be limited to only two cities vs your one: the OCC option doesn't limit the AI to one city). You will be amazed at how much easier it is, by using only a single city on diety (just make sure you got military to prevent the AI from getting more cities under normal settings: not checking on the 'no settler' option).

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P.S.

sometimes the AI will "get stuck" due to powerful/promoted animals/barbs (combat defeats of the AI), returning their second settler and 3 warrior escort back to their capitol, and will usually remain like that for most of the (early) game (as you'll likely have an easy win).

I now hate when this happens, as it ruins the game against the AI.

if you want to learn 'builder' play style efficiency (it'll help for diety as you understand what's the effective parts for your commerce/etc needs):

custom game:
difficulty: settler
AI: 0
Map: team battleground
Size: duel
climate: termperate
sealevel: medium
era: ancient
Speed: quick
team placement: round
team setting: N/A
world map: flat

new random seed on reload

victories: none

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use starting settler and the units to explore the entire map: on reload, move your settler to the center of the map as you want to build 9 cities, the city map grid pattern below is simplistic if you don't want to think about where to place cities (5 is your capitol in the middle of the map):

789
456 ---- fat cross separation between the adjacent cities (4,6,5,8,2), no overlapping should occur, except with the corner cities (7,9,1,3)
123----- the map size is always the same (4,6,8,2 should be on the coast fitting exactly allowing for the middle city:5, with no overlapping)

with your starting settler, build in the center of the map (even if it takes 1-2 extra turns to get there), as this greatly reduces city distance maintainance costs.

use your units (including your starting settler if the hut/lair is on the way to the middle) to get huts (reload until you get settlers) and lairs (if you got the patience... great sages for academies, are best).

do NOT build cities with your extra settlers, use them to get more huts (settlers) and lairs (best: great sages)

as for your capitol: build a worker -> then warriors for your 8 cities (move them to the city locations even before you build the cities, as they will fog bust: eliminate barbs from spawning)

and for your tech: exploration -> cartography

after you collect all lairs/huts, move your extra settlers to the best spots, waiting to build cities upon COMPLETION of cartography tech (change to city states and build your extra cities).

after cartography: agriculture -> calender -> festivals -> mysticism

have your capitol worker, improve your capitol first (farms), and then work on building roads to connect any of your extra cities, for the +1 trade.

your new cities should build a worker, upon completion improve the cities land, then work on building roads to connect any cities, for the +1 trade.

after you build your first worker in your capitol+cities: build markets or if not, then obelisks/elder council

and that's a start... at some point I'll get a turn by turn (more clear directions/explanations) of this testing game...

hegemonkhan said:

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yes, defending usually only gives 1 exp, whereas attacking can yield 3+ experience (I'm not sure if winning low combat odds, using 'new random seed on reload' option + save->load, increases the exp gained or not)

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Click to expand...

never played deity, but I can help on xp generation.

you get xp based on 4 things : the odds of the combat ; whether you are attacking (100%) or defending (most often 50%), is the unit a unique unit (more xp here), xp multiplicators.

1) when you defend : your strongest unit (unit with the best odds) is used and that cannot be changed : it will thus always be the minimal amount of xp of the whole stack (eg: a 99 odds units will be used instead of the 95% odds one)
or it will be your elit combat 2 shockI warrior that is ok but wounded (27%odds) instead of one of the multiple 0xp warriors (25%odds) that you wouldn't mind losing as long as they weaken the ennemy and that one of those kills the ennemy (1 out of 4)

when defending, you profit from city defense %, terrain defense etc : it improves your odds of winning; while this is good for defending a position, it doesn't help with getting much xp.

When you attack :
you can decide on the risk you want to take:
- if you get 80% odds, you'll get more xp than attacking with the 95% odds units (but you have 1chance out of 5 to lose it, instead of one chance out of 20).

(in fact the actual value used for xp calculation is based on the ratio of strength between the 2 units.. but as this ratio is also used for determining combat odds, using the odds is a good way to indicate the xp gain)

2) when attacking you get the xp gain defined for the unit as "kill by an attacking unit" (in the xml). When defending you get the xp gain defined for the unit as "kill by a defending unit" (in the xml). (you can only change the amount of xp the unit gives when dying.. you don't get to influence the xp a unit receive when attacking/defending)

3) unique unit : killing orthus with 95% chance of winning is better than killing a random scorpion archer with 80% chance of winning. (in fact it's in their xml values)

4) Great general, added to the unit, increase xp gain, by 25 or 50%.. this is HUGE for leveling units.


Exceptions: attacking units that retreat always get 1 xp, and the minimal xp gain per combat is 1.


so tip to get more xp :

-charge Orthus if you can : as long as you get to him before he is too strong (combatIII-CombatIV), it is worth it to sacrifice 5 warriors to kill him with the 6th. (the orthus axe is nice, but the main boon is that 15+ xp you get on this warrior)

Best, most concise advice I can give is to learn how to exploit the AI.


The most obvious way is through spells, particularly ones which damage all units in their stacks (such as Ring of Fire). The AI will usually hold in place to heal before advancing, allowing you to essentially "lock" their units in place, provided you don't leave any of your troops directly next to the stack to motivate it into moving. Obviously spells which actually freeze units in place work very well for this purpose as well, although for a different reason- the AI hates splitting a doom stack, and will attempt to wait out the spell duration in place until all units can advance together, which will never happen if you keep freezing some of them every turn.


Do this, then pick them apart at your leisure.


There's honestly not much you can do if a tough AI declares on you early and advances with more troops than you could reasonably beat. It does have a bad tendency to not garrison new conquests (like, at all), so you can often hold out until you can tech counters by constantly abandoning and retaking settlements. The AI only razes cities very rarely.


Oh, and the vanilla FFH is terrible at conducting naval invasions, so island colonies are an easy way of having cities tech for you while requiring minimal defense.

Oh, and the vanilla FFH is terrible at conducting naval invasions

Click to expand...

Yes. Play More Naval AI Mod - in short - better AI.

The only answer is to play More Naval AI Mod. It doesn't just improve the naval aspect of the AI it improves in in every way. The vanilla FfH AI is absolutely garbage and is the biggest flaw in the otherwise great mod. More Naval AI Mod vastly improves the AI and really makes single player FfH the awesome mod that it should be. It is much funner to try to beat the AI on emperor diffculty with More Naval AI, than it is to try to beat the AI on Deity with vanilla FfH.

Seriously get More Naval AI Mod you will not regret it!!!!