Heroes

Actually, Doc Brown is already one of the Great Scientist names available in-game, complete with custom birth-announcement. So is Carl Sagan, thanks to yours truly's GP names project.

Nelson Mandela is also one of the Zulu faction's heroes. I believe Martin Luther King Jr is one of the Great Prophets, and it might be a little confusing to have Gandhi as both a faction leader and hero, but hey, maybe he could be India's Spartacus.
 
Welcome. First of all I really like C2C and enjoy it.
Now to the merits. I will by very grateful if someone could remove Casimir III and Jadwiga from the list of Russian heroes.
Casimir III and Jadwiga have nothing to do with Russian culture. Making them Russian heroes unit is historically as accurate like making Louis XIV German hero or Bismarck French. I will postulate to make them Polish heroes (if/when Polish civilization will be introduced) or if not to remove them completely.

Again i will be very grateful for correcting these.


For those who like to learn something about Polish history two short movies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj0IVcSdd10&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mVlzTcvWsI
 
I do not perceive these as anti-polish doing so would be totally silly. I perceive these just as historical inconsistency/inaccuracy and it bother me when i play.
So if someone could replace those units ( or remove it for time being ) i will be grateful.
Or maybe someone could just point me files that should be edited and i will do it for myself.

Again it is great mod and i truly appreciate great deal of work put in to it.
 
One of my concerns was that the NPC's were not creating them. In my current game, I was up to 7 hero's before I finally saw one of the other Civ's create one. Not sure if this is just pure luck related or if they just don't care about them right now?

What I have been doing is using the 8 str hero's to create their special buildings - The +% research/production ones for example. At 30 turns each, I had 90 straight turns of golden age since I would wait for one to expire before I would use the next hero. The 15 str hero's I have been promoting for combat - always starting with the 100% experience promotion to more easily promote them to other perks. So far I think they all have 4 perks and easily surpass all my other units in the game. I expect this to change eventually as research and units overtake them.
 
The ai is unaware of heroes in any specific way, but it will see them as powerful units, and should therefore build them. It may be that they simply lack the ability. I know in my game I STILL can't build ANY heroes in 1694 due to the cultures I have access to not having any (mostly American Indian cultures). I have access to some elite units based on cultures but no actual heroes. For that reason I have done no with them at all.
 
Koshling said:
The ai is unaware of heroes in any specific way, but it will see them as powerful units, and should therefore build them. It may be that they simply lack the ability. I know in my game I STILL can't build ANY heroes in 1694 due to the cultures I have access to not having any (mostly American Indian cultures). I have access to some elite units based on cultures but no actual heroes. For that reason I have done no with them at all.
Click to expand...

Ah ha! Whenever I get some American Indian cultures, I can build a huge number of hero units, maybe it is because I am playing an African Culture.
 
Caldon said:
One of my concerns was that the NPC's were not creating them. In my current game, I was up to 7 hero's before I finally saw one of the other Civ's create one. Not sure if this is just pure luck related or if they just don't care about them right now?

What I have been doing is using the 8 str hero's to create their special buildings - The +% research/production ones for example. At 30 turns each, I had 90 straight turns of golden age since I would wait for one to expire before I would use the next hero. The 15 str hero's I have been promoting for combat - always starting with the 100% experience promotion to more easily promote them to other perks. So far I think they all have 4 perks and easily surpass all my other units in the game. I expect this to change eventually as research and units overtake them.
Click to expand...

One thing about the Heroes is that in the original mod they were taken from (World of Legends), you could only build one military hero and one national hero (they were UU's for their civ), so especially you were limited to ONE of the eight achievements. I once had a WoL hero -- and it was one of the national heroes, not military -- with EVERY promotion. It was amazing.

I think I have three national heroes from Culture (Greek) and two from Culture (Persian) in my current v18 game. I have to see how well this lasts, especially with their ability to create back-to-back Golden Ages. I have seen a few other heroes created by AI's.
 
Something else I noticed about Heroes. You can't use an XP-boosting unit (like a Lord or Warlord Vassal) to directly boost a Hero. The button for add XP doesn't even appear if the Hero and the Lord are the only units on a tile. However, if you have a regular unit on the tile, plus the Hero and the Lord, you can use the Lord, and the Hero and the unit split the XP. This seems inconsistent. Is it supposed to work this way? A Great General turned into a Field Commander can't get any kind of bonus from a Lord, either with or without other units.
 
Vokarya said:
Something else I noticed about Heroes. You can't use an XP-boosting unit (like a Lord or Warlord Vassal) to directly boost a Hero. The button for add XP doesn't even appear if the Hero and the Lord are the only units on a tile. However, if you have a regular unit on the tile, plus the Hero and the Lord, you can use the Lord, and the Hero and the unit split the XP. This seems inconsistent. Is it supposed to work this way? A Great General turned into a Field Commander can't get any kind of bonus from a Lord, either with or without other units.
Click to expand...

Too tell you the truth (which i always do), i never even thought about this equation when i added them to C2C, HUH?

And like Koshling said, i also didnt figure out anything with the AI.

Mainly i was just concerned about getting them in a game to see how it goes, and then like you just did, write down here what is ok with the Heroes and especially what is "wrong" or inconsistent, then go from there. So all criticism is very needed at this point.
 
We need to do something about how easily you can get them. At the moment you can basically have a never ending golden ages for the whole game. Its not hard to get a hero and with so many cultures some with 2 or more you can get like 2 more more golden ages, until use up all the achievement buildings.

Either we need to make heroes harder to get or achievement buildings harder to get. Or just have them no give golden ages.
 
Hydromancerx said:
We need to do something about how easily you can get them. At the moment you can basically have a never ending golden ages for the whole game. Its not hard to get a hero and with so many cultures some with 2 or more you can get like 2 more more golden ages, until use up all the achievement buildings.

Either we need to make heroes harder to get or achievement buildings harder to get. Or just have them no give golden ages.
Click to expand...

Bah!! So not true if your available cultures don't include the useful (for heroes) ones! Still ZERO opportunity to build a single hero for me approaching 1700AD (on snail). I have north Amercian + about 4 or 5 American Indian cultures (also still no cow, pig, sheep, wheat, corn on anyone I can trade with or any land I can see apart from across the ocean which I am ALMOST ready to invade for [I am the only Civ with Astronomy currently])
 
Koshling said:
Bah!! So not true if your available cultures don't include the useful (for heroes) ones! Still ZERO opportunity to build a single hero for me approaching 1700AD (on snail). I have north American + about 4 or 5 American Indian cultures (also still no cow, pig, sheep, wheat, corn on anyone I can trade with or any land I can see apart from across the ocean which I am ALMOST ready to invade for [I am the only Civ with Astronomy currently])
Click to expand...

Yeah, i get alot of games like that also when playing mapscripts. Infact, i never got one Hero until i reached the Renaissance Era.
 
Hydromancerx said:
We need to do something about how easily you can get them. At the moment you can basically have a never ending golden ages for the whole game. Its not hard to get a hero and with so many cultures some with 2 or more you can get like 2 more more golden ages, until use up all the achievement buildings.

Either we need to make heroes harder to get or achievement buildings harder to get. Or just have them no give golden ages.
Click to expand...

I think removing the Golden Age is the way to go. Maybe you can have just the first achievement trigger a Golden Age with an event? My current game has a city building Culture (Assyria) just for the heroes. I'm in the Renaissance now and am into a wave of expansion based on getting the Democracy civic going. On a Giant map, 20 cities doesn't go very far. I checked my expansion at 34 before the unhappiness was too much.
 
Vokarya said:
I think removing the Golden Age is the way to go. Maybe you can have just the first achievement trigger a Golden Age with an event? My current game has a city building Culture (Assyria) just for the heroes. I'm in the Renaissance now and am into a wave of expansion based on getting the Democracy civic going. On a Giant map, 20 cities doesn't go very far. I checked my expansion at 34 before the unhappiness was too much.
Click to expand...

I think I tend to agree. I think a better way for Golden Ages to occur would be based on national Cultural levels using AIAndy's new system. Maybe every X milestone grants a Golden Age?
 
EldrinFal said:
I think I tend to agree. I think a better way for Golden Ages to occur would be based on national Cultural levels using AIAndy's new system. Maybe every X milestone grants a Golden Age?
Click to expand...

I tell you what, come up with an actual way of doing it and then let me test it, hows that.
 
strategyonly said:
I tell you what, come up with an actual way of doing it and then let me test it, hows that.
Click to expand...

Some possible ways to implement...

  • Cultural milestone directly triggers Golden Age via code (AIAndy)
  • 100% chance Golden Age Event triggered by Cultural Milestone (Ori)
  • Cultural Milestone building line (statues or monuments in honor of milestone) which triggers Golden Age
  • Cultural Milestone makes special Tech available that triggers Golden Age

And by Cultural Milestone I am referring to achieving a new Culture Age as AIAndy has setup in CIV4CulturalAgeInfos.xml
 
EldrinFal said:
Some possible ways to implement...

  • Cultural milestone directly triggers Golden Age via code (AIAndy)
  • 100% chance Golden Age Event triggered by Cultural Milestone (Ori)
  • Cultural Milestone building line (statues or monuments in honor of milestone) which triggers Golden Age
  • Cultural Milestone makes special Tech available that triggers Golden Age

And by Cultural Milestone I am referring to achieving a new Culture Age as AIAndy has setup in CIV4CulturalAgeInfos.xml
Click to expand...

Whatever mechanism is chosen I like the linking of it to cultural achievements of this sort.
 
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