1.22 released!

snarf137 said:

In my game, it seems that all the leaders have a -5 diplomatic penalty against me. Some even have slightly more with -7 or -8. The reason is "past events have drawn us apart". However, this occurs even with civs that have the exact same religion and tenets as me. How is this value calculated? Is it working as designed?

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"Past events have drawn us apart/together" is the generic label for any attitude penalty/bonus caused by custom code. In BTS it's used by random events, and in HR it's also used for Tenets, diplomatic repercussions of civil wars, the Diplomatic trait, and the Taj Mahal. I hope to eventually add specific labels for these different sources, but I haven't figured out a way of doing that yet.

It does sound like something has gone awry in your game. Do you have the latest patch installed? (If the city screen building list can be filtered, you do). If not, get that because there was a bug that could cause the religious attitude code to not run, among other ill effects. If you are playing with the latest patch, please post a saved game.

Thanks so much for this mod btw! I'm having so much fun playing it!

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You're welcome! Thanks for the bug report.

Alexej said:

Here you go, but i will reproduce this in singleplayer i have new game so far 200 turns.

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Thanks for these. This is definitely a separate bug to the one I fixed in Patch 3. Unfortunately I cannot reproduce it from your saved game. I don't know if this is because of a multiplayer/singleplayer difference, or because the timing of the English being wiped out is different when I replay it (takes about 30 turns). If you manage to reproduce the error in single player it would be a great help, but this is potentially a multiplayer-only problem.

I am afraid that might be truth, cause i didn`t encountered this in 600 turns long game How can we hunt this bug then? I want multiplayer

Alexej said:

I am afraid that might be truth, cause i didn`t encountered this in 600 turns long game How can we hunt this bug then? I want multiplayer

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I'll need a chance to sit down with 2 computers and do some stress testing. Hopefully later this week.

A few minor suggestions:

1. The population loss message for completing a Wonder under the Sacrifice tenet currently says "...required the sacrifice of -1 population in...", which is a double negative. The minus sign should probably just be dropped.

2. The current implementation of the Sacrifice tenet (specifically the lack of food carryover on growth) is both heavily anti-synergistic with Slavery (which especially hurts the Aztecs, who should canonically be running both), and fairly easy to side-step for quite a while by just not bothering to build food retention buildings like the Smokehouse and Granary. If possible, I would suggest changing it to half normal food retention on growth instead of none, and compensating by having the population loss on Wonder completion also cause unhappiness (as with Slavery-based whipping and certain random events).

3. Anarchy should not be disabling the Great General progress bar, since you should still be able to generate them through combat victories while in anarchy.

4. Please add the current civ-wide Faith per turn to the progress bar tooltip. At the moment it's quite awkward to calculate how much you're actually generating.

And a question:

Anarchy is twice as long per civic/tenet changed as it was in 1.21. Is this intended?

Nightstar said:

1. The population loss message for completing a Wonder under the Sacrifice tenet currently says "...required the sacrifice of -1 population in...", which is a double negative. The minus sign should probably just be dropped.

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Agreed.

2. The current implementation of the Sacrifice tenet (specifically the lack of food carryover on growth) is both heavily anti-synergistic with Slavery (which especially hurts the Aztecs, who should canonically be running both), and fairly easy to side-step for quite a while by just not bothering to build food retention buildings like the Smokehouse and Granary. If possible, I would suggest changing it to half normal food retention on growth instead of none, and compensating by having the population loss on Wonder completion also cause unhappiness (as with Slavery-based whipping and certain random events).

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I prefer it as is. Not building Granaries/Smokehouses still results in slower growth comparison to a civ that has them and a different Worship Tenet. You just save a few hammers.

3. Anarchy should not be disabling the Great General progress bar, since you should still be able to generate them through combat victories while in anarchy.

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I meant to revert that but forgot. Fixed.

4. Please add the current civ-wide Faith per turn to the progress bar tooltip. At the moment it's quite awkward to calculate how much you're actually generating.

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I was going to add this (and a break-down of city faith) in a patch but decided not to. It involves quite a lot of code changes, and I didn't want to risk introducing new bugs.

Anarchy is twice as long per civic/tenet changed as it was in 1.21. Is this intended?

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Intended, but not because I particularly wanted to increase it. Without the increase, there were situations where anarchy length was different for the AI compared to human players. If I ever figure out why that was happening I may revert it.

Xyth said:

A patch to address the following issues in 1.22:

• Resources: added faith associations to pedia and most tooltips

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I know it says most tooltips, but I haven't seen any after installing the patch.

Is there a way to view potential trade routes before signing Open Borders? If there is, is it possible to tie this ability to a tech? Say after researching Economics your regime is now capable of determining which markets are lucrative for your nation.

And do trade routes effect religions/culture/espionage at all?

Xyth said:

Charts updated for 1.22. No Civilizations or Religion/Tenets chart yet sorry.

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I noticed there are plans to add Biplanes in the tech chart. Was it a matter of art or function that kept it from 1.22?

Skidizzle said:

I know it says most tooltips, but I haven't seen any after installing the patch.

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Other than in the build queue, in which tooltips would you expect to see faith info but aren't?

Is there a way to view potential trade routes before signing Open Borders? If there is, is it possible to tie this ability to a tech? Say after researching Economics your regime is now capable of determining which markets are lucrative for your nation.

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Not possible.

And do trade routes effect religions/culture/espionage at all?

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Religions spread more readily to cities connected via trade routes, and espionage missions are a bit cheaper in cities you're trading with. No effect on culture, but I'd like to change that eventually.

I noticed there are plans to add Biplanes in the tech chart. Was it a matter of art or function that kept it from 1.22?

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Time. The religion changes in 1.22 were so extensive that most everything else on the to-do list got put aside. Also, the Modern era needs a review, and adding things like Biplanes are probably best done at the same time as that.

Xyth said:

Other than in the build queue, in which tooltips would you expect to see faith info but aren't?

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In my initial post was thinking terrain tooltips for effected resources under certain tenets but I didn't make that clear. Now I see where you added build queue tooltips.

Xyth said:

... No effect on culture, but I'd like to change that eventually.

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Very interesting considering foreign influences on stability; this could be a factor to spice up the modern era. Are you thinking along the lines of BNW and tourism?

Xyth said:

Time. The religion changes in 1.22 were so extensive that most everything else on the to-do list got put aside. Also, the Modern era needs a review, and adding things like Biplanes are probably best done at the same time as that.

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Agreed. Quality over quantity.

I keep getting a crash when i attempt to bring up the city screen, using the F1 key.

Please find attached the crash report

Sorry if I'm repeating, but this is the attachment for the crash mentioned earlier

Skidizzle said:

In my initial post was thinking terrain tooltips for effected resources under certain tenets but I didn't make that clear. Now I see where you added build queue tooltips.

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I'm unable to modify tooltips from the main map (e.g. mousing over a tile), but tooltips for resources everywhere else should show faith info.

Very interesting considering foreign influences on stability; this could be a factor to spice up the modern era. Are you thinking along the lines of BNW and tourism?

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Not sure what's possible yet.

cpease61 said:

I keep getting a crash when i attempt to bring up the city screen, using the F1 key.

Please find attached the crash report

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cpease61 said:

Sorry if I'm repeating, but this is the attachment for the crash mentioned earlier

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Seems to be something to do with specialists. Could you post a saved game?

Here is a autosaved game, where it happened

cpease61 said:

Here is a autosaved game, where it happened

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Hmm, it's not crashing for me at all. I played for 10 more turns, checking each one. Do you have Patch 3 installed? If you downloaded 1.22 prior to the 14th of November, you'll need to do that (or just re-download 1.22).

Hi all I'm back!

I'm currently on a Fall From Heaven jag, but when I get over that I think I will break out the latest iteration of History Rewritten and play with it on my Windows machine (the Mac died). The Faith/Tenets stuff sounds interesting, although I'm a bit unsure how it plays out in practice; parts of it sound either restrictive or confusing.

I might also try to make some suggestions about fixing up the modern era tech tree, which I gather still hasn't been done.

Simon_Jester said:

Hi all I'm back!

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Welcome back!

I'm currently on a Fall From Heaven jag, but when I get over that I think I will break out the latest iteration of History Rewritten and play with it on my Windows machine (the Mac died). The Faith/Tenets stuff sounds interesting, although I'm a bit unsure how it plays out in practice; parts of it sound either restrictive or confusing.

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There are some concept articles in the pedia which should hopefully clear up any confusion. Would be great to hear your feedback on the new system.

I might also try to make some suggestions about fixing up the modern era tech tree, which I gather still hasn't been done.

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It's on the agenda for 1.23. Your ideas would be most welcome.

F12 is listed as the hotkey for both the Civilopedia and the Victory Advisor.

I love all the changes in 1.22, so far not having any problems. The added complexities make game play very unpredictable, which is exciting. I do hope at some point people will post strategies they find successful that are specific to History Unwritten. All of the strategy posts for regular BtS don't seem to apply in the same way, I really do have to play differently than before. I love History Rewritten so much, I almost never play anything else. Its incredible how excellent this mod is and how much careful work you have put into it, a million thanks!

I have a question about Shwedagon Paya: does it allow for tenet change only once, and only at the time it is first built? I did build it and assumed that future tenet changes would not involve anarchy but I was wrong. The pedia article isn't exactly clear on what the building does and when to use the benefit.

If I add a priest in all of my cities, will that greatly increase the speed at which new Great Prophets are generated? I've been playing mostly Creative and Spiritual leaders and want to plan strategies that play to their strengths, but still learning exactly what those might be. On that note, I do hope future changes will include a leader that has those characteristics for the New World scenario. I almost never play games that involve a lot of war, so it would be nice to have several leader options in that region that are cultural/peaceful strategy oriented.

I would like a bit more info on how tenet changes influence other civ's, especially if they share a religion. Its not exactly clear how to plan for the changes and when they will happen.

If I found a religion and proselyte nearby cities in other civ's, will the temples built add to income for me? Or for the other civ? Both? I always build the special building of my faith right away in order to claim income, and in regular BtS games I have always gained tremendous income as my faith spreads to other civs. Does that still happen?

Its embarrassing to ask, but I'm still unclear on how long an Open Border has to stay in effect before I can cancel it. I usually play with closed borders very long into the game, its allows me to close off large areas of territory to other civ's while I have time to build out into them without having rival civs plant cities. However I'd also like to have short windows where I can have missionaries ready to spread my faith during an Open Border period, but I want to know how long that will last.

I look forward to 1.23, especially if you include a better global warming component. Happy New Year!

Nightstar said:

F12 is listed as the hotkey for both the Civilopedia and the Victory Advisor.

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I'll take a look and see what keys are free and bind the pedia to something else.

gatinho65 said:

I love all the changes in 1.22, so far not having any problems. The added complexities make game play very unpredictable, which is exciting. I do hope at some point people will post strategies they find successful that are specific to History Unwritten. All of the strategy posts for regular BtS don't seem to apply in the same way, I really do have to play differently than before. I love History Rewritten so much, I almost never play anything else. Its incredible how excellent this mod is and how much careful work you have put into it, a million thanks!

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Great to hear you're enjoying HR!

I have a question about Shwedagon Paya: does it allow for tenet change only once, and only at the time it is first built? I did build it and assumed that future tenet changes would not involve anarchy but I was wrong. The pedia article isn't exactly clear on what the building does and when to use the benefit.

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Normally you cannot change your Divinity tenet during a Reformation. It can only be changed if you switch to a religion that has it, e.g. if you want Monotheism you have to choose Judaism, Christianity, or Islam. But with the Shwedagon Paya, every time you trigger a Reformation you will have the option to change your Divinity tenet. You'll still incur anarchy and such when changing Divinity tenet, but you'll have access to otherwise unavailable combinations such as Polytheistic Christianity.

If I add a priest in all of my cities, will that greatly increase the speed at which new Great Prophets are generated? I've been playing mostly Creative and Spiritual leaders and want to plan strategies that play to their strengths, but still learning exactly what those might be.

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Priests are definitely one of the more reliable ways to generate extra faith, especially if you have the Polytheism tenet.

I would like a bit more info on how tenet changes influence other civ's, especially if they share a religion. Its not exactly clear how to plan for the changes and when they will happen.

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Short of holding a Great Prophet in reserve for a 'counter-reformation', it's not really something you can plan for. There's no way to predict when a foreign reformation will happen, but you can get an idea of who is likely to influence you. The tooltip for the Faith Bar on the main screen lists all the civs you've met that share your religion, and how likely they are to influence you, or you them.

If I found a religion and proselyte nearby cities in other civ's, will the temples built add to income for me? Or for the other civ? Both? I always build the special building of my faith right away in order to claim income, and in regular BtS games I have always gained tremendous income as my faith spreads to other civs. Does that still happen?

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This mechanic is the same as in BTS. If you posses the religion's shrine, you'll earn wealth for every city in the world that has that religion.

Its embarrassing to ask, but I'm still unclear on how long an Open Border has to stay in effect before I can cancel it. I usually play with closed borders very long into the game, its allows me to close off large areas of territory to other civ's while I have time to build out into them without having rival civs plant cities. However I'd also like to have short windows where I can have missionaries ready to spread my faith during an Open Border period, but I want to know how long that will last.

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Open Border deals last until one or the other player cancels it. There's a minimum period where it can't be cancelled, which I think is 10 turns or thereabouts. I presume it scales with gamespeed but it's not something I've paid much attention to before. Not seeing where it is defined in the code either.

I look forward to 1.23, especially if you include a better global warming component. Happy New Year!

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Global Warming has already been replaced, by Platyping's Local Warming module. At this stage it's included as-is, but I'd like to make some adjustments and additions at some point.

Happy New Year, and thanks for your feedback

Xyth said:

Open Border deals last until one or the other player cancels it. There's a minimum period where it can't be cancelled, which I think is 10 turns or thereabouts. I presume it scales with gamespeed but it's not something I've paid much attention to before. Not seeing where it is defined in the code either.

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I believe it's 10 turns regardless of game speed. The only way I know of to bypass that waiting period is to tie the agreement to a resource trade, and then lose all access to the resource in question to force an auto-cancel of the whole deal.

Thanks for explaining Schwedagon in more detail; I saw that I could change Divinity options on the screen but since I thought changing the tenet would also change my religion (and to what exactly lol?) I didn't change it. I wasn't even sure if it was just a bug, so I ignored it. Now I know what is possible, like Polytheistic Christianity, cool.

Aah, so unpredictability about tenet changes on/from other civ's has been built in, I think that is probably the way it should be. Preserving unpredictability and forcing flexibility should definitely be major parts of the game.

As far as open borders, the pedia calls it Annual, so I didn't know what that was supposed to mean lol. It does seem like 10 turns is about right, although it does seem to scale as well later in the game. I should just remember to take notes, but I never do.

The Local Warming is a good addition I was unaware of; I'm not sure I've noticed it's effects just yet as I tend to do everything possible to preserve forests in my civ's lol. Is Platyping's module one of those that gradually decreases resources as they are used over time, along with deteriorating the local environment? I think that is a great component of some of the other mods. I think it would be excellent for there to be penalties for covering your city with mines that both reduce the resource and deteriorate climate over time. And not just suddenly in the modern era but starting right from the beginning in an appropriate way.

Since I'm veering into the subject of upcoming HR version, I'm going to stop here and post the rest in the 1.23 thread