Hi all,
I've read through several threads about game speed (e.g. this one) and still have a few questions of my own. I mainly play on Standard speed (on Standard or Large maps, Difficulty 5-7 with occasional Deity); I also played many games on Quick for achievement purposes and have no interest in actually playing the game on that speed. I'm considering Epic and possibly Marathon, but I want to have a few questions answered that I couldn't really gauge from existing threads:
1. What are the most noticeable gameplay flow differences between, say, Standard and Epic? I know that (for talented players) slower difficulties are easier because they allow human micromanagement to exceed the AI even further, and I know the basic "1.5x epic, 3.0x marathon" rules. But what are the biggest pragmatic differences?
1a. Does it become easier/harder to keep buildings up to speed with science progress?
1b. Do eras really feel like they "last longer" for wartime purposes (e.g. some Civs only get to crank out their cool UI once or twice before it's obsolete), rather than just "eras last longer but production takes longer too"?
1c. I know the game has some "fixed turn number values" wired into the core files that do not change with speed settings. Are any of these egregious enough to be noticed on Epic or Marathon? One example I know offhand is that if you start production on Unit X then switch to something else, your production progress on Unit X starts to decay after Y turns, and I don't think "Y" changes with game speed. Are any phenomena like this noticeable?
1d. Aren't city-state gifts the same in value regardless of game speed? Does this have a large noticeable effect on Diplo Victory between speeds?
2. Suppose hypothetically that I want eras to last longer for wartime purposes, i.e. so that my units don't become obsolete so quickly, but still be able to produce units at a good rate (and the AI too, of course). My only gripe whatsoever with 1UPT - which otherwise I don't mind - is that the slow unit production and high unit maintenance fees drive me to roam the world with an epic 6-man band, all with Logistics and March, mowing down anything in my path because no newly-produced unit can really match up against a small but highly promoted force like that (until nukes). Never do I get to ride into battle with a larger force, all from the same era, against a similarly large opposing force - which would be a highly tactical fight with 1UPT! Usually if anyone gets that many units amassed, half of them are already outdated by the most recent science tech. I hate marching halfway around the world to take out Venice when I know that by the time I get there, all my Composite Bows will have grayed out "Promote" symbols and Venice might have gotten strong enough that I need Crossbowmen
(Sometimes I capture a proxy city-state halfway around the world for the sole purpose of upgrading my world-conquering commando force... no joke.)
...in this hypothetical situation, what's the best option? It might not be "play on Epic" if the unit production time increases so much that you're still marching around with your handful of Level 8 Crossbowmen and not much else. It might be:
- Tweak the XML files or use a mod. I know some posters in the past mentioned upping the science tech requirements... but wouldn't messing with science requirements (and nothing else) have some bad effects? E.g. making some victory conditions much, much easier to attain than others? Do any mods fit this purpose well?
- Play Huge maps. My only distaste for Huge maps is that some victory conditions become exponentially tedious with a few more AI Civs. Conquering 7 other capitals is a breeze; conquering a few more on top of that can feel like a grind. The same can be said of Cultural Victory because more Civs tends to increase the likelihood of "that one runaway Civ" whose culture is hard to top even if you're almost at Dominant with 10 other Civs. My personal experience is that it's not that the challenge increases, so much as the tedium, since by the time you've captured 7+ capitals you're probably steamrolling everything with the exact same strategy every time.
In summary, I consider myself a fairly experienced Civ5 player, but only within my silo of Standard pace, Standard/Large map games. I'm looking for feedback from players whose silos are not so narrow
(In anticipated response to "why not play an Epic game and find out", I'll paraphrase a response in another thread: I want to come to a Civ discussion forum and discuss it first - which can also benefit others with the same questions. I have tried Epic games and found the earlygame a bit slow-paced... what I am asking here is whether I should stick with it for greater payoff, since there are probably a few dozen players who can answer that question in a few minutes' time.)
I've read through several threads about game speed (e.g. this one) and still have a few questions of my own. I mainly play on Standard speed (on Standard or Large maps, Difficulty 5-7 with occasional Deity); I also played many games on Quick for achievement purposes and have no interest in actually playing the game on that speed. I'm considering Epic and possibly Marathon, but I want to have a few questions answered that I couldn't really gauge from existing threads:
1. What are the most noticeable gameplay flow differences between, say, Standard and Epic? I know that (for talented players) slower difficulties are easier because they allow human micromanagement to exceed the AI even further, and I know the basic "1.5x epic, 3.0x marathon" rules. But what are the biggest pragmatic differences?
1a. Does it become easier/harder to keep buildings up to speed with science progress?
1b. Do eras really feel like they "last longer" for wartime purposes (e.g. some Civs only get to crank out their cool UI once or twice before it's obsolete), rather than just "eras last longer but production takes longer too"?
1c. I know the game has some "fixed turn number values" wired into the core files that do not change with speed settings. Are any of these egregious enough to be noticed on Epic or Marathon? One example I know offhand is that if you start production on Unit X then switch to something else, your production progress on Unit X starts to decay after Y turns, and I don't think "Y" changes with game speed. Are any phenomena like this noticeable?
1d. Aren't city-state gifts the same in value regardless of game speed? Does this have a large noticeable effect on Diplo Victory between speeds?
2. Suppose hypothetically that I want eras to last longer for wartime purposes, i.e. so that my units don't become obsolete so quickly, but still be able to produce units at a good rate (and the AI too, of course). My only gripe whatsoever with 1UPT - which otherwise I don't mind - is that the slow unit production and high unit maintenance fees drive me to roam the world with an epic 6-man band, all with Logistics and March, mowing down anything in my path because no newly-produced unit can really match up against a small but highly promoted force like that (until nukes). Never do I get to ride into battle with a larger force, all from the same era, against a similarly large opposing force - which would be a highly tactical fight with 1UPT! Usually if anyone gets that many units amassed, half of them are already outdated by the most recent science tech. I hate marching halfway around the world to take out Venice when I know that by the time I get there, all my Composite Bows will have grayed out "Promote" symbols and Venice might have gotten strong enough that I need Crossbowmen
(Sometimes I capture a proxy city-state halfway around the world for the sole purpose of upgrading my world-conquering commando force... no joke.)
...in this hypothetical situation, what's the best option? It might not be "play on Epic" if the unit production time increases so much that you're still marching around with your handful of Level 8 Crossbowmen and not much else. It might be:
- Tweak the XML files or use a mod. I know some posters in the past mentioned upping the science tech requirements... but wouldn't messing with science requirements (and nothing else) have some bad effects? E.g. making some victory conditions much, much easier to attain than others? Do any mods fit this purpose well?
- Play Huge maps. My only distaste for Huge maps is that some victory conditions become exponentially tedious with a few more AI Civs. Conquering 7 other capitals is a breeze; conquering a few more on top of that can feel like a grind. The same can be said of Cultural Victory because more Civs tends to increase the likelihood of "that one runaway Civ" whose culture is hard to top even if you're almost at Dominant with 10 other Civs. My personal experience is that it's not that the challenge increases, so much as the tedium, since by the time you've captured 7+ capitals you're probably steamrolling everything with the exact same strategy every time.
In summary, I consider myself a fairly experienced Civ5 player, but only within my silo of Standard pace, Standard/Large map games. I'm looking for feedback from players whose silos are not so narrow
(In anticipated response to "why not play an Epic game and find out", I'll paraphrase a response in another thread: I want to come to a Civ discussion forum and discuss it first - which can also benefit others with the same questions. I have tried Epic games and found the earlygame a bit slow-paced... what I am asking here is whether I should stick with it for greater payoff, since there are probably a few dozen players who can answer that question in a few minutes' time.)
