Most faith per turn you've ever generated

I have been replaying a ridiculous map I got with Spain, and I'm generating 200-plus faith per turn at about Turn 200. I'm curious what the most faith per turn is you've ever generated and how you got there. In my case, I'm working five Natural Wonders with One With Nature pantheon. Only ones with a built in faith bonus are Mt. Kailash and Mt. Fuji, but that still gives me 40 faith per turn just from the Pantheon bonus combined with the UA. Add UA to the main tile bonuses from Kailash and Fuji, and I'm at 58 faith per turn just from Natural Wonders. Got mosques in all cities (went wide with Liberty to get four of the five Natural Wonders very early (fifth was on an uninhabited island). Also got the bonus to shrines and temples from Organized Religion and built a few Pagodas and Monastaries when other Civs converted some border cities (before I quickly converted them back).

Used all that faith to buy a massive army with Holy Warriors and universities and public schools with Jesuit Education. Honestly, this is about the easiest Domination game I've ever had. With that much faith, no one can come close to keeping up with my army. Faith purchasing crossbowmen at 20 percent discount from Mandate of Heaven was giving me one new unit every two or three turns. I steamrolled England and India on my own Continent before Astronomy, so avoided warmonger penalty.

my best so far is 873 faith a turn with pagodas + mosques + Jesuit
in a game where i did capture one entire continent on a huge map as Egypt

Ps; i endet up having about 30k faith th buy GS

komodowaran said:

my best so far is 873 faith a turn with pagodas + mosques + Jesuit
in a game where i did capture one entire continent on a huge map as Egypt

Ps; i endet up having about 30k faith th buy GS

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How were you generating faith other than buildings? Did you have a faith boosting pantheon? Even with pagodas and mosques in every city along with burial tombs and temples boosted by organized religion, you are going to max out at 11 faith per city on buildings alone. Assuming you had far less than 80 cities.

SoonerJBD said:

How were you generating faith other than buildings? Did you have a faith boosting pantheon? Even with pagodas and mosques in every city along with burial tombs and temples boosted by organized religion, you are going to max out at 11 faith per city on buildings alone. Assuming you had far less than 80 cities.

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i had desert faith and afther my conquest of the entire continent i hade close to 80 citys

OUCH!! That 870 faith story is sick!
Never had 200 Im pretty sure, but I got 150+ quiet a few time.

mmm best is probably pagados+mosques+aurora in a Celts game. I had close to 250 fpt by the end. Clearly with the Egypt story it could've been a lot bigger if I'd gone conquering! (this was only with less than 10 cities)

komodowaran said:

i had desert faith and afther my conquest of the entire continent i hade close to 80 citys

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I'm not even going to ask what difficulty or map setting you were using. That's way beyond a normal number of cities.

Generating 50 or more faith per turn early on with four cities is sickening if you can get the right pantheon and then find a productive way to spend that faith like Holy Warriors or Jesuit Education. Problem I had was preventing accidental auto-spawns of prophets I didn't need if I let it build up too fast.

^^^

People keep saying stuff like this, but you can do this without cheating. I've been running experiments with wide games and ICS is still possible on the huge map setting which is a perfectly valid, not-cheating option. Here's some information to show you how (and I've done this):

Founding Penalty is normally what limits your city number. It's 3 at standard size, 2.4 at large, and 1.8 on huge.

80*1.8 = 160 global happiness sources needed just to cover the settling penalties (local happiness doesn't count) which seems impossible till you realize a few happiness choices are also globally applied and lower thus can work against settling penalties:

Meritocracy: +1 happiness per city connection -5% happiness from citizens- reduces the founding penalty to 0.8/city, by far the best reason to go liberty in addition to the culture cost reductions. The percent modifier makes it so after a certain size cities can be costing you no happiness even with the founding penalties.

With a strong religion and proper choices it gets better:

Sacred Waters: +1 happiness from from cities on rivers, also global and thus completely removes the founding penalty for all cities on rivers if you also took meritocracy and connect to capital on huge map.

You can now ICS on river sites.

One more from religion:

pick either ceremonial burial or peace-loving for more global happiness. Most games like this Egypt one Ceremonial Burial is superior and is what you want. 0.5 happiness per city seems tiny and a bad choice but this is global happiness. Your founding penalty on huge after merictocracy is now only 0.3/city! With sacred waters basically every city is free assuming 1/3 of the cities are on rivers.

Now you can ICS for forever especially if you claim wonders like: Forbidden palace (further -10% reduction for happiness) and Notre Dame.

If you get meritocracy+forbidden palace you also get a significant population happiness penalty reduction (-15%) in every city helping to combat pop and far better in cumulative effect then tradition's bonus for just the capital.

Now pick autocracy for the fast courthouses and happiness from them and you can do what he did and conquer the Earth!

Not impossible, just improbable. It requires your pick of religious choices and if you want sacred waters sacrificing a faith pantheon as well but that can be done with a few religious civs like: Celts or Ethiopia and still get those religious choices. The AI doesn't pick them first so you have a solid chance!

Even if you miss out on the religion part you can limp by on luxuries, friending mercantile CS, commerce for +2 happiness from luxuries, wonders, and liberty discounts. With only a penalty of 0.8/city you can still make a lot on liberty/huge. Few players realize this playing nothing but small and standard though...it's sad that the community is so set in one way of playing, I think the above game is far more fun!

Also India's UA apparently combats population penalty so if you grow large enough you can ICS with them without a religion. There was an article on it a while back. I'm unsure if the other pop unhappiness reducers do this or only operate on the local unhappiness. Probably only India though.

It's a lot easier to go ICS with Egypt than with other civs, when you consider that Burial tombs (temple UB replacement) provides an extra +2 happiness by itself.

danaphanous said:

Founding Penalty is normally what limits your city number. It's 3 at standard size, 2.4 at large, and 1.8 on huge.

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IIRC, map size does not affect the unhappiness generated per city. It remains constant (at 3 unhappy faces) regardless. Map size however reduces the science and culture cost increase incurred per additional city.

They may have changed in BNW but if you are playing the latest patch what I say is correct.

I play huge and I've counted

If you need proof check the changes imbedded in the xml code.

Here's the carlsguide link, it says the same think as I do:
http://www.carlsguides.com/strategy/civilization5/difficulty-settings.php

Large: 2.4, Huge: 1.8. Unhappiness per city is reduced by 20% on large and 40% on huge.

And you're right they also reduce the penalties for culture and science. They do this so you can actually settle enough cities to fill the larger map size without the games playing worse then standard. It makes the map sizes more balanced. However, as I discuss above this makes it so you can literally have no penalty with the right religious/policy choices. I'm playing a game like this right now and i can make as many cities as I want. It totally works no mods, all vanilla!

And if another player tells me playing on huge is "cheating" we're gonna have a fight. Just because you all decided to never play above standard sized worlds doesn't mean huge is bad--choosing standard is arbitrary, hall of fame has scores for all map sizes btw. It's right there on the menu with victory conditions, raging barbarians, map type...
If any of you ever set the map type you're cheating as much as someone who changes the world size. It's a vanilla default option for goodness sake!!! At least I put map type on random so I'm not "cheating" by knowing what my world will look like lol. That's cheating more then the size in my opinion as you have an advantage over the AI by knowing the distribution of land, how many scouts to build, what policy tree works best. I prefer to have to figure all that out blindly like the AI.

Getting tired of narrowmindedness regarding tradition starts...sorry lol
Maybe I should write a guide or something!

I never said anything was cheating. I just said it was not normal. The most commonly used map and game settings are not going to allow for 80 cities.

I think standard maps are too small. I prefer large maps, as I feel it is enough room for diverse play without becoming unmanageable. If you like playing on huge maps, enjoy.

Not talking about you, you've been nice so far.

I also think Large is about the perfect size. On huge AI turns start taking a long time. However my strategy above still works on Large maps. Going liberty+ceremonial burial brings the settling penalty to 0.9/city (2.4-1-0.5). If you get sacred waters river city's have no happiness hit. If you can get maybe 10 unique luxuries, a few mercantile CS, discover a few natural wonders, and score a few happiness wonders you can easily conquer the entire world and fill it with cities on Large. 80 is high, but it should be possible given all the options.

On some of the liberty vs. tradition debate threads people have been whining how they "can't play wide", "it's so bad", "liberty is terrible", "tradition is so much better", etc...

When I bring up the very reasonable point that maybe they could change the map size to one which would allow to fit more cities (which allows the benefits of liberty to show and makes it easier to learn to play wide) their response is usually: "I'm talking about standard" or "the game takes too long" or "can't finish science as fast". When I point to sub T300 liberty wins with huge empires (Deity winning times) they talk about T210 finish times, basically the record times on "great" maps with "awesome" starts. This is funny given I can probably finish before a lot of these players when they play tradition. Not everyone is a stellar player and liberty is more forgiving/solid in my opinion lategame. It relies a lot less on technique and timing and more on sheer force as your science is exploding late-game with that many cities. One game I was getting future tech every 3-4 turns. Most tradition games science is twice that but they get by by bulbing loads of scientists they saved. The fact that you can do that at all seems like a bug to me and is the only reason they can finish so early. If you couldn't bulb scientists the times on liberty/tradition would be closer as tradition definitely slows down in the info era. About 2/3 of the research is saved scientists.

Anyway, clearly the attitudes of these players that can't adapt to liberty playstyle are self-defeating. Picking a small map size where the average civ might get 5 cities max obviously advantages tradition since that's right in the sweet spot for it's optimal empire size. Whereas you have a hard time settling enough cities to make the liberty bonuses equal without some luck or war. And you can't say you want a large empire and then complain that managing it takes longer lol. Clearly these players like fast/small games and more power too them but that's not the setting where liberty works optimally. If everyone played on Large I bet more players would say liberty was "good". Especially after they experience being rushing by a human with a wide empire. You realize that small empires have limits when you see the never-ending units and how much better the production for large empires is. I can beat them being even a tech level behind!

Obviously in an ideal world tradition finishes the fastest on Science but this assumes you don't get invaded and everyone leaves you alone which is only possible because the AI is so predictable and manipulatable. And it won't work at all in multiplayer with actually smart opponents. The reason tradition looks good has more to do with the stupid AI in SP in my opinion. They don't bully the small players like would realistically happen and just let them tech away and not build a military. The reason they get ahead in tech is they focus on nothing but growth and science. In a real game if you didn't build any more than 2 archers till Education you'd just lose. No one would let you get away with that esp. when they saw your tech level outpacing theirs. You are making yourself vulnerable. You're getting ahead on science, sure, but the opportunity cost is empire security, production, and gold. You are definitely counting on the stupidity of the AI to let you do it. If you couldn't bribe the AI to fight each other to keep them off your reliably early-game I'd say the failure rate of the fast tradition strategy would be a lot higher. Few of the games I've seen could stand up to an early rush till they get so far ahead on tech it doesn't matter.

~200-300 -per-turn on a large or huge map with Byzantium. Was about a year ago. Was also the last time I played sub-deity game to experiment. I only had 4 cities (or 5?) and finished the game with over 30k .

My religious beliefs were:

• Desert Folklore (+1 per desert tile)
• Pilgrimage (+2 each foreign city following the religion)
• Papal Primacy (+15 resting points for city-states following the religion)
• Pagodas (+2 per building)
• Mosques (+3 per building)
• Missionary Zeal (25% missionary conversion strength)
• Evangelism (missionary spread erode pressure of other religions by 25%)

I also had the Great Mosque of Djenne (+3 ; missionaries spread religion 3 times) and Borobudur (+5 ; 3 free Missionaries). I went full Piety and Patronage and had permanent friendship with every city-state. Religious city-states I had as allies most of the game.

Danaphanous, I agree with most everything you said. I specifically brought up the map size issue in that ridiculous thread calling Liberty trash. I don't understand why someone is willing to try new strategies and victory paths, but refuses to even consider different map settings.

ICS was much easier in vanilla. It's definitely more difficult in BNW, but not impossible. I've never seen 80 cities on a large map, but I suppose it could be done. It could certainly be done on huge maps.

If I am playing for faith I'll average around 100-250 per turn, more if I'm Ethiopia or Celts or somebody like that

SoonerJBD said:

I'm not even going to ask what difficulty or map setting you were using. That's way beyond a normal number of cities.

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Huge,continents,6 Ai on Empiror , 6 Real players
liberty 2, in to piety 5 in to finish liberty (ratio was banned till u modern)

ps: if u try that stratagy u will have 3 main problems
1: Happynes: but as Egypt get's +2 more per city
2: gold: but Egypt get's free Tempels
3. Teaming but u should have enough production to defend against the team of the remaining players