troublmaker
Warlord
I always line up my guys one tile from his border. For some reason he just never catches on to this.
What's the point. People are upset because they do take a diplo hit for essentially lying because they wanted to attack, but NOT YET!
If you say you're passing through and then attack, it's a diplo hit with everyone.
It would be nice to reply "none of your business" or "we're keeping our eyes on you", get a big diplo hit with the one civ (and for it to prepare defenses), but not actually go to war then and there.
The good news is it can often be avoided by making sure that less than 3 units are 2 tiles from their borders.
But if you do that, you essentially escape responsibility.
Hence my suggestion we can have that option but the penalty is the same (everyone notices you told another Civ to mind their own business and hates you) or better yet double the penalty if you tell them to mind their own business, so lying seems good by comparison.
The whole 3rd option thing is essentially about not having to worry about lying. We might as well remove the whole mechanic and make it 'passing through' & 'mind your own business' because no one will use the lying option. Which is why the suggestion is IMHO insidious. If the 'mind your own business' option doesn't record a penalty equal in weight to the lying option, what's the point of ever lying.
It's why you have to have the dilema of choosing what your true intentions are. And with regards to changing of circumstances where you tell them passing through then decide to attack later. Totally understand that, but it can't be 20 turns later or 10 turns later. That's nothing in Civ terms. They can lower it 30 turns, which is the duration of a trade. But that's debating whether the cat should be black or white in the context of this discussion.
At the end of the day though, we have lots of 'I'm annoyed by this mechanic' but all the examples given tends to point towards agressive posturing or an intention to attack eventually, just not right now, which is exactly what this mechanic is there to fish out. OP was exposed for example for essentially being a liar about his intentions and he was rightly penalized So I'm really not that concerned it's that big of a problem.
I rarely encounter this. I understand certain map configurations can make it more common, but I'm fairly certain the AI also calculates its own forces. They tend to be most finicky when your massing near an undefended border.
50 turns is way too long, promises should be recorded somewhere for the player to reference.
Xichael: Dexter's point is that no one who plans on going to war will EVER select the first option if the third option is available, and therefore the entire 'broke your promise' penalty will never occur, and you've just circumvented the entire mechanic.
(As others have pointed out, if you plan on going to war, the diplo hit from option 3 is rather moot, is it not?)
Because of the above, no one would ever select Option 2, either.
It is broken either way. I have plenty of screenshots of my troops just sitting in normal positions not even close to the border and I get the message.
Mind your own business is a huge penalty with target civ.
You got it for that (shown in the screenshot)? I have trouble believing it. AFAIK, I've never gotten it for:
Maybe it's just that I don't move troops around like you do, but what's shown in the screenshot should not even have been close to triggering it in my experience.
- 1 troop on his border, outside my borders
- any number of troops inside my borders, even if they're on his border
- any number of troops more than 1 tile outside his borders
"We're only passing through" - No diplo hits, but if you break it then huge diplo hits with everyone.
"Declare war" - Obviously you're at war and take a diplo hit with the the target civ.
"Our troops go where they please" - Diplo hit with target civ, and they prepare defences accordingly.
You got it for that (shown in the screenshot)? I have trouble believing it. AFAIK, I've never gotten it for:
Maybe it's just that I don't move troops around like you do, but what's shown in the screenshot should not even have been close to triggering it in my experience.
- 1 troop on his border, outside my borders
- any number of troops inside my borders, even if they're on his border
- any number of troops more than 1 tile outside his borders
dexters: I guess the real question is, "Do you want your AI to even attempt to pass a Turing Test?"
What's with this obsession with gamers calling something they don't like, or something pretty minor, 'broken'?
If you're not meaning to attack, then what's the issue?
But as it's a highly exploitable situation, I prefer this mechanic to no mechanic at all.