Bulbing, Settling, Building an Academy? What to do with a Great Scientist

Gooblah

Gooblah

Heh...
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Jun 5, 2007
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In a recent game, I popped a GS in an isolated start. My tech path would have allowed him to bulb Philosophy early (~250 BC). My capital was churning out roughly 70 BPT at 100% research.

What should I have done with him? I was considering bulbing him, but I already had a religion (Confucianism). I was considering Pacifism b/c I was already running Representation (I had a truckload of Fish - 8 at that point, 10 later - so I could afford a few Specialists) - but mostly for the :) benefit: my island and the neighboring Galley-accessible island had no happy resources.

Settling seemed a bit lame, as building an Academy would net me more beakers (40 -> 60 at 60% research in the BCs seemed pretty good). In the spirit of fostering hopefully worse relations in the main landmass (by this point, 5 GGs had popped and the Greeks were destroyed a turn later), I ended up building an Academy.

So is this entirely situational? How does one determine what to do with a GS?
 
Gooblah said:
In a recent game, I popped a GS in an isolated start. My tech path would have allowed him to bulb Philosophy early (~250 BC). My capital was churning out roughly 70 BPT at 100% research.

So is this entirely situational? How does one determine what to do with a GS?
Click to expand...

Yes, it is very situational. If you are running a specialist economy, early Pacisfism is nice. But if you are isolated, getting Philo first takes one religion away that could instead be causing strife overseas.

All in all, making an Academy with the first GS is usaully a good move. Don't worry, you'll get more (and get higher yield bulbs on Education).
But if you are in contact with all AI and want some trade bait.. that may override other concerns. <shrug>.
 
i suggest in isolation an academy is a waste

philosophy first and contact not far off would open up other options not the least of which is education which can again be popped

already having a religion is an issue but the possible great prophet (chitzen itza) to Divine Right again opens options - as science dives in an absurd useless religion gamble
and while it may not pay off you still end up near Divine Right-

draw back is if you are the only one isolated- positive is a dead civ in the short run

the evidence is clear- academy build is the inferior

joining is even better hoping for a better pop date- but philosophy is not a bad pop date...
 
troytheface said:
joining is even better hoping for more at a better pop date- but philosophy is not a bad pop date...
Click to expand...

Does this apply to all difficulty levels and all VC's? I see joining as the superior only if long game anticipated, like space race.
 
in my opinion, i wouldn't bulb at all while in isolation but rather build academies and/or settling depending on how my cities look.

Reason why i wouldn't bulb is, that there's noone to trade with ... usually when i'm isolated i beeline Optics, after initial worker techs (and the early economy techs) ... after meeting trading partners i start thinking about Bulbing.
 
I benefit if Philosophy bulb is trade, being isolated negates that benefit. Education bulb is isolation is different as you have faster access to universities and the race to liberalism.

I always build the academy in the capital.

After all that I tend to either academy the next best cities or settle in teh future Oxford city (usually the capital).

If I really cannot find a good use, a Golden Age is always a good idea, especially after liberalism and I want to change civics.
 
"Does this apply to all difficulty levels and all VC's? I see joining as the superior only if long game anticipated, like space race. "

it does read that way. Emperor, Fractal, Standard, Random
Isolation will lead to a long game until the war of Astronomy
which is a glitch in the tech path suggested- granted.
 
Philosophy serves other purposes besides just trade bait. Besides, not always good to give some AIs access to Pacif.

I've found that in isolation and running a specialist heavy economy with early rep, early Pacifism is huge. Earlier and fast GP for academy/settling as well as very little need for military means you get the most out of the "no civic upkeep". Academy in the bureau capital, save 1 for education, settle the rest in the bureau capital. 9:science: 1:hammers: per turn plus multipliers in the earlier portions of the game is pretty hefty. Plus, you can go optics soon after and probably be able to trade Philo to someone anyway.

EDIT: Then again, if I have a cottage spammed city that will turn into a monster later (IE 15+ cottages), I may put an academy there depending on how the map looks.

(Monarch advice)
 
agree- already having a religion -Pacifism early and when it makes sense- with no enemies about.
 
If your capital is your research center and will be for the forseeable future - Academy.

However, in isolation this gets tricky. Early Philo for even earlier Caste+Pascifism (you mentioned already running rep so more specialists would be powerful) would allow an interesting diversion. By not researching Civil Service/Theology you can block the paper bulb. This opens up a different bulbing route - Compass to Astro first. Self research MC/Machinery and bulb Compass, Optics, Astro (requires 4 GS to completely bulb) and then sail off to get foriegn trade. This is highly situational and has a lot of risk/benefit assessment (no Civil Service!!!!) as you can also open this path up after snagging CS/Paper/Edu.
 
This path is interesting, i've used it sometimes in the past. You need to have a pretty mediocre capital for buro, otherwise making the super science capital with buro is stronger. I wouldn't bulb philo in this case before making an academy.

If i go the astro route i wouldn't bulb compass, too cheap, optics depends on the rest of my research,it's as cheap as paper which i wouldn't normally bulb. However if we're going this path our normal research won't be that great so bulbing optics could make sense.
 
Lansky, that would be miraculous to build the pyramids and yet having so terri-bad capital to burn everyone on bulbs and skip civil service (no chain irrigation, no 50% bonuses).
Actually if i build the pyramids i will not research alphabet but maths+currency, so no bulbs.
 
It's a very very niche situation. Isolated, bad capital, high food. Even then I would likely build the Great Lighthouse before considering such a thing. The returns have to be huge to be cost effective.
 
Agree with Lansky but you dont need to self research machinery, if he is already having representation means pyramids are already his, if he can manage the GP pool he can get a engineer from that who can bulb machinery.

On isolated starts getting Astro outweighs Civil service, by the way what is the route for lib race?
 
^Not necessarily, the biggest risk is ais in mercantilism, that's why the CS route is at least safer with a good buro capital, also since paper/edu/maybe lib trade better than machinery/optics.
 
one of the positive effects of going paper 1st is the map brokerage and relatively easy proof that the world is round (wow). [btw map price doesn't scale w/ the game speed]
i almost always see the ais in mercantilism past leaving my thousands years asylum.
 
CS route is safer, early astro and some tech trades think is better that later astro and very good trades. Need to do the benefits, coudnt we just trade/gift economics( got through trades ) for OPs? Needs just two techs guilds and banking. Again need to weigh options before doing this
 
I almost always bulb Philo if I get the chance - isolation or no. Also, almost always you can meet the others before they acquire Philo in some other way so it's good trade bait anyway. Only case in which I wouldn't do this is if I have a monster Byro capital running already without an Academy. Still, the next GS probably isn't far off so I might still postpone the Academy.

Having multiple religions might actually be a benefit for an early Philo in case you want to grind Prophets by building Angkor Wat. Pacifism is also a possibility; though negated a bit by the fact that you probably don't want to have a heathen religion by the time you meet the others (not that long from Philo).

IMO Philo bulb is the highest ROI bulb of all; early beakers are better than late beakers, and Philo is one of the first to be almost the max beakers you can bulb.
 
I usually don't have economics on ais when i'm out of the cage. If i have economics i trade it away immed in every situation. Once they have it they won't always switch to FM, depends on the civ.Also it's not always possible to bribe them there. A lot of civs like merc and SP and just skip FM.

Then again astro is never worthless apart from some useful resources you can count on selling resources profitably for gold. So the number of (rare) resources you have should also be included in the equation. Fish generally won't net you much, some spare crab or silver is great however.Other often good resources are surplus tundra and calendar resources. But there's always room for surprises, sometimes several ais don't have cow or corn, i would never bank on being able to trade these profitably though. Clam and fish are not too good too.
 
Silu, While we are at it (bulbibing philo and multiple religion stuff) couldn't he try cultural for this game :)
 
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