How balanced is Civ V compared to Civ IV ?

If your premise is that a strategy game with unbalanced choices, or choices only there for flavor, is an okay thing. Then let's agree to disagree.

A lot of the "weak" ones are there for flavour yes. For example Tithe/Church Property/Ceremonial Burial are more or less balanced, whereas something like Papal Primacy is there for flavour.

Keep in mind lots of people play Civ for the empire building aspects, so it's not purely a strategy game.
 
I still think keeping the flavor there while making more viable for "more hardcore" players wouldn't do them bad.

Someone just enjoying empire building (like my wife) would just not get the subtleties if her favorite strategy got a little jump in power and enjoy the game the same.
 
I still think keeping the flavor there while making more viable for "more hardcore" players wouldn't do them bad.


Exactly. I contend that a lack of balance actually diminishes "flavour." To take the advantage posted above, a game where Papal Primacy is just as viable an option as Tithe/Church Property/Ceremonial Burial has actually got more variety, not less.
 
civ 5 vanilla (before patches) was extremely well-balanced in terms of different tactics being viable. through patches and expansions they made the game much shallower in terms of ways you could expand your civ and still be competitive.

in comparison, civ 4 is a simple numbers game. the balance between making a pasture vs. not making a pasture is completely lopsided. the balance between city radius 2 vs city radius 1 is completely lopsided. the balance between having a granary vs not having a granary is completely lopsided.
the best thing about civ 4 is the cottage --> town mechanic. the farm or mine is usually better for the short-term, but in the long-term the gold will grow.


what civ 5 really lacks is a playable competitive multiplayer mode so it's hard to say how good the balance really is. but I'd say when it comes to the balance of the actual game mechanics:

1st place: 2010 version of civ 5
2nd place: civ 4
3rd place: current version of civ 5
 
Second, we've got the Civs themselves. This is entirely predictable - beginning with Civ 3, Civs have been growing more and more diverse - and that means less and less balanced. However, I would say that Civ V is the first game where there is a definite tier system in play, and I would argue that this is because in Civ V, the Civ distinctives actively shape the way the Civ plays. This can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on your point of view. In Civ IV, most of the traits were transferable to a variety of victory conditions and playstyles. In Civ V, while the best Civs tend to have abilities that are transferable, most do not.

This is good in the sense that there is a lot more variety between the Civs, and playing one Civ will feel fairly different from playing another (though there is not quite so much variety as there is in a game like SMAC). However, it's bad in the sense that the power divide between different Civs is far larger than ever before, and there's a distressing amount of Civs who require specific map conditions, setups, and/or gameplay styles to be competitive - made even worse by the fact that there's quite a few Civs who are incredibly powerful in virtually any situation.

Personally, I prefer Civ IV's Civs. While I like the variety of Civ V, I feel that too many Civs are pigeonholed into either specific playstyles or specific map requirements. In Civ IV, the Japanese were arguably the worst Civ, but they weren't at too large of a disadvantage (and most of the disadvantage they did have wasn't from the Civ itself, but rather from their idiot personality's isolationist policies). In Civ V, the Danes are arguably the worst Civ, and holy crap, do they struggle.

For me, I see Civ V's Unique Abilities the same way I see a lot of changes the game made: Good idea, bad execution.

Tic tac toe may be a more balanced game than any civ game for example but it doesn't mean it is better. Civ 4 had very bland & boring civs with very small differences between different civilizations. While that may make it better from balance point of view but it makes it inferior to civ 5 in every other way you look to it, from flavour to replayability to usage of varied tactics etc. IMO it is unfair to call civ 4 better in this category.

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Tic tac toe may be a more balanced game than any civ game for example but it doesn't mean it is better.

This thread contains several arguments suggesting that tic tac toe is a superior game to Civ 5. It's not necessarily my opinion, but the arguments do have some merit.
 
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