I hate Siam. I have Attila and Khan as my buddies. WTF

In my last game I had Siam, Huns, and Mongols all in my game. I was expecting heavy warfare against Attila and Genghis Khan while preserving the rare peaceful moment with Ramkhamhaeng. How wrong I was.

For a peaceful looking guy like Ramkhamhaeng (I can't even get his name right, I'm ctrl-v his name now), he sure loves PISSING ME OFF. He loves setting settlers and sending them over to build cities either right next to my capital, or in the late game, DEEP IN MY EMPIRE. He'll just use the gaps between my borders to slip in his settler. Warning him not to settle next to my cities? No use. I captured his settler. Next time, he'll STILL do that. Finally I give up and let him build a city somewhere in a backwater position. And then he STOLE MY TECH. And he refused to apologize. DOW'ed again, he said that "ok then I'll take pleasure in destroying your Empire" lolwut? I first culture bombed him with a great musician and won the CV, but then continued playing until I wiped him off the planet with my huge navy and a nuke.

On the other hand Attila and Khan were amazingly cooperative. Attila tried to settle next to my city once, I razed it immediately, and he gave me a peace treaty along with 45 GPT and turned back to Friendly. He sent out missionaries and great prophets around which I captured and destroyed and he STILL offered peace treaty and friendship. Khan was not bothering with me either, he was simply too busy killing CS with his navies. Both guys were Afraid of me by the end of the game. And the best thing was they both could be cheaply bribed (something like 45 gold +2 GPT + some horses) to attack Siam. Did I mention how much I hate Siam?

I find it funny how some of the supposedly friendly opponents like Siam and William would almost always backstab you, while leaders that will naturally make you alarmed against such as Napoleon and Catherine are almost always very loyal and reliable. Yep, I had a game with William as my long term trade and OB parter and got backstabbed by him while Japan, Russia and France were friendly to me. They were all close neighbours.

Don't know why you are complaining about what happened in 1 game...

Nobody, nobody at all likes Ramkhamhaeng. In a dictionary under word "hypocrisy" there's a huge picture of him, beautiful virgins (city states) surrounding his annoying smug face as he's riding a miniature elephant.


Also leaders have different forgiveness and other modifiers, which are also slightly randomised (between + and - 2 every game).
Not to mention Genghis Khan rarely picks fights against anything but CS's in my experience too. By the time he declares war on a second or third one, everyone without exception will ask you to chain DoW him. It doesn't matter if it's Gandhi, Napoleon or Chaterine, all want him dead and will ask you to declare war on this warmongering menace. Then, he'll either beat them up or get beaten up.

And Atilla is often relatively harmless. BNW AI is just too calm and doesn't like wars too much. That's why you go to BNW Leader Spreadsheet thread which contains MOAR WAR mod, making everyone very hateful and war-lovin' - just the way it should be.

I can never keep Rammy as a friend. He hates warmongers, wonderspammers, anyone who allies a CS, expands even remotely close to him....pretty much anybody who takes any step towards winning the game. He might not be very war happy but he's generally just a disagreeable fellow.

Old Rammy has been a solid contender in "Upper Class Twit Of The Year" for as long as he's been around. He exists only to have a sense of superiority, as though he knows from turn 1 he's winning this thing. Anything you do to change that pissed him off.

Build a Wonder? He wanted it, denounced for wonder coveting.
Ally a city-state? He wanted to for that diplomatic victory, denounced.
Get into a fight? You must be a warmonger, he's drafting his denouncement now.

Rammy has a very unfriendly and irritating AI personality. He is like a bit less capable version of Alexander who tries to make up for it by being more annoying. I wouldn't mind him as much but he's a PITA with the way denouncements. He's also pretty good at medieval warfare because naseruphants are so good.

Genghis and Attila are Cool Dudes unless you completely neglet your army.

Rule of thumb: the only leader that won't whine about your every single action is Pocatello. Neither will you please him easily, though.

As for Atilla and Genghis, their friendliness is often deception. But they will keep showing you "Friendly" as long as you have a stronger army and they have weaker civs to target.

Yeah, I hate Rammy too...luckily, there's a solution: KILL HIM!
However, I'm not especially surprised about Genghis; if you get him friendly (and don't do stuff to annoy him) he'll be a pal for the entire game.

Glassmage said:

Don't know why you are complaining about what happened in 1 game...

Click to expand...

It's not just 1 game. The first time he pissed me off I was playing as China. He settled right next to my spot, complained that I was being too close to some CS, and I built some wonders they coveted. I just got fed up enough of him, wondering "what's wrong with this guy?" and completely destroyed him with Chu-ko-nus.

And I didn't know about the warmonger penalty back then, therefore this guy gave me an extra death throes by making the whole world hating me for genocide.

Siam is easily one of the most annoying civs in the game. With his elephants and playstyle, he's so hard to kill, and will just be there to annoy you and denounce you the entire game. AI civs don't have to be warmongers to be huge pains!

Actually, the warmongering civs are much less annoying in the game AI-wise. They don't complain too much if you don't intentionally provoke them and will just straight-forwardly start a war if they really hate you.
The most annoying leaders are those who prioritize relations with CS: Alex, Rammy, Elizabeth are the best examples. They will tell you about everything they don't like, and eventually will denounce you every time they say "Hello".

Genghis is a rock solid bro, highest loyalty rating in the game. Very low forgiveness though, so once you do anything to upset him, he will hate you forever.

I'm not entirely sure what are you complaining about in this thread, HeresiarchQin. All civs have their agenda and if a leader is generally a warmonger, it doesn't mean that he is going to DoW people at random all the time

All leaders have their personality. It determines how they will approach the game. Attila and Genghis will use warfare to grow, however they will attack targets they see as viable and they will try to befriend other empires. Keep in mind that in BNW, the fact of having a border with someone does not deem you to eternal enmity.

Civs like Siam, on the other hand, have their agenda in constant clash with yours. They want the same wonders as players, they are prickly when it comes to city states and they will fight over the land. Rammy is most dangerous in medieval era when he gets his elephants. He's likely to backstab you then, as he did to his woe with me in my latest game. There's a really good chance that even if you are fairly far away from each other, you already beat him to a wonder or are/was allied to a CS he sees as his zone of influence. These things are much more important that the fact that a civ has some exceptional unique military unit.

PS.
Approach Siamish AI as if it were your girlfriend: when there are issues between you two that reasonably should have been voiced and AI keeps saying "it's fine" and doesn't mention anything with red font, either send them free gems or run!

Really? I find Siam most dangerous when he gets to flight before me.

Ramky the Hamky does have the highest Warmonger hate. Even higher than GANDHI! This won't stop him to conquer the world. He wiped out France, Spain and England and had a enormous continent for himself. He declared the wars.

I took one Magnificent city from Suleiman because he settled it next to my capital. Ramky called me a warmonger. Then it got real. I eventually smashed his useless loser empire for losers and liberated everyone. Then I crashed.

Siam/Ramkhamhaeng might just be the most human AI there is.

In-game, Ramkhamhaeng (ctrl+v'd from OP's ctrl+v, by the way) is a pissy bastard and possibly my all-time #1 Civ V enemy despite not encountering him all that often. He loves acting totally peaceful and leaving you questioning when, if ever, he'll turn on you with that sourpuss face of his, because he seems to do it at random in a way that's supremely annoying (but not in a way that I would want to change his AI). I'd love to see a game of all AI Siams just to see how much they hypocritically hate each other (wouldn't be surprised if such a game ended more bloody than an all-Hun game).

Alex's AI is on average much harder to overcome, but at least his strategy (take all CSs, go to war with human permanently) is fairly honest and predictable.

Atilla and Ghengis are easy to get along with - all you have to do is have a huge military and go on conquering sprees with them.

Rammy is impossible to get along with. He hates you if you warmonger, he hates you if you build wonders, he hates you if you ally with city-states, he hates you if you expand... basically doing anything to try to win the game will put you on his bad side. He's best dealt with early if possible - Siam can become a huge pain to deal with later on when they have the money to buy half the city-states on the map. Hopefully his hypocrisy becomes too much for the AI leaders and they gank him, then you can just join the pile-on. Siam never ends up lasting in my games...