Starting Biases

s0nny80y · Aug 31, 2012

Has anyone else noticed the politically correct starting positions of most civs in G&Ks with starting biases left enabled?

I'm sure it's old news but Sweden has a near impenetrable start in the mountains with a river flanking it's open side and hill forest adjacent to it...took me perhaps 80 turns of war and tech upgrades during a standard game to crack that nut.

On a side note, Hiawatha starts off in a large forest area and I, Babylon, with it's cheap frontier city walls is surrounded by terrain dotted with occasionally with hills...although I'm not so sure the latter synergizes with Babylon at all, or perhaps I am not creative enough. Oh yeah, and Ramses starts in a desert too.

HeraldtheGreat · Aug 31, 2012

For me Sweden always starts near salt...
________________________________
Stupid truth always resisting simplicity.
-John Green

budweiser · Aug 31, 2012

I wish there was a starting guide for each start bias. Obviously some regions are easier to start in than others. Grassland rivers and deserts can be hammer poor while hill starts are hammer rich etc.

Yzman · Aug 31, 2012

People over state what the start bias are. They are very simple and have nothing to do with "surrounded by mountains" etc. They are for the new civs

Civs starting along Ocean
Spain, Carthage

Civs starting near Forest
Celts

Civs starting near Grass
The Netherlands

From the regular game
England and Ottomans like to start coastal.

America likes to start by a river! ( this was taken out in the expansion I believe)

Arabia starts by desert, Aztec by jungle, India by grassland, Russia by tundra, and Iroquois by forest.

Egypt does not start in a forest or jungle region; Songhai does not start in a tundra region, and Siam does not start in a forest region.

How it appears to work from the description is that areas of the map are labeled by the prevalent terrain type. Then, some civs' starts are biased towards starting in them or away from them. For civs who like to start near things, if there is no region classified in that manner, it will still try to start near SOME tiles of that terrain type.

notadummy · Aug 31, 2012

Yzman said:
They are very simple and have nothing to do with "surrounded by mountains" etc.

Actually, I believe that Austria has a bias near mountains, IIRC

Yzman · Aug 31, 2012

I just posted all of the start biases ( not including DLC)

Austria does not have one.

Kimuyama · Aug 31, 2012

What Yzman says is true, I've had Austria start in the middle of the jungle several times, for example.
And if Sweden had had a mountinous starting bias it would just have been wrong, most Swedes live where the mountains aren't.

Barathor · Sep 1, 2012

Personally, I prefer to play without the start biases to keep things random. But, when doing so, I also choose maps that force coastal starts for all. That way, at least the civs that have naval bonuses aren't stuck in the middle of a land mass and handicapped. For the other civs, there's plenty of forests, hills, etc. to go around throughout the map.

Plus, everything else in the game is just a big, delicious ice cream cone of all civilizations' history and culture all blended-up and swirled together anyway; I don't care much for realism and more accurate locations (and like I said, gameplay-wise, I don't believe the civs are hurt much with the method I use).

Yzman · Sep 1, 2012

I think you actually hurt the civs with start bias quite a bit with your setup. Celts that don't start near forest are useless. Same with Iroquois. Inca that don't start in mountains are severely hindered etc...

You are hurting the other players in your game.

True_Candyman · Sep 2, 2012

I'm fairly sure the Mayans start bias puts them in jungle. About 8/10 starts are there.

buchengshi · Sep 2, 2012

True_Candyman said:
I'm fairly sure the Mayans start bias puts them in jungle. About 8/10 starts are there.

I'm fairly certain they don't

CIV5Civilizations_Expansion.xml said:
-<Civilization_Start_Along_Ocean>
-<Row>
<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_CARTHAGE</CivilizationType>
<StartAlongOcean>true</StartAlongOcean>
</Row>
<Delete CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_SPAIN"/>
-<Replace>
<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_SPAIN</CivilizationType>
<StartAlongOcean>true</StartAlongOcean>
</Replace>
</Civilization_Start_Along_Ocean>
-<Civilization_Start_Region_Priority>
-<Row>
<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_CELTS</CivilizationType>
<RegionType>REGION_FOREST</RegionType>
</Row>
-<Row>
<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_NETHERLANDS</CivilizationType>
<RegionType>REGION_GRASS</RegionType>
</Row>
</Civilization_Start_Region_Priority>

Yzman is still correct.

TheMarshmallowBear · Sep 2, 2012

Yazman is correct, it is nothing more than a very good conincidence, which surprised me as I believed most civs had some kind o biased, and it turns out most of them lack one.

animalguy · Sep 2, 2012

I'm fairly sure the Mayans start bias puts them in jungle. About 8/10 starts are there.

I swear 8/10 starts are jungle for every civ, except for a selct few e.g. Russia, Egypt and Korea.

Lord Kid · Sep 2, 2012

animalguy said:
I swear 8/10 starts are jungle for every civ, except for a selct few e.g. Russia, Egypt and Korea.

8/10 starts in either desert or tundra for me.

draaibaar · Sep 2, 2012

Yzman said:
[...]

Civs starting near Grass
The Netherlands

How strange, you would expect them to start near ocean and marsh.

Yzman · Sep 2, 2012

draaibaar said:
How strange, you would expect them to start near ocean and marsh.

It actually makes perfect sense. Marshland only appears on grassland, so you give them a grassland start so they maximize the amount of marsh they can potentially start near. I would agree that a sea bias would have also been ok for them, but the grassland bias is better just because their uniqueness doesn't rely on being near water much ( except their ships).

draaibaar · Sep 2, 2012

It's still unclear to me why the Dutch don't start near marsh (not grassland) and ocean. Maybe the designers were afraid the start position would be to bad. Imagine Amsterdam with 3 ocean tiles and 3 marsh tiles to begin with. It would be a challenge. It would be realistic. Maybe it could be compensated with tulip's as an extra unique resource on the polders.

Yzman · Sep 2, 2012

draaibaar said:
It's still unclear to me why the Dutch don't start near marsh (not grassland) and ocean. Maybe the designers were afraid the start position would be to bad. Imagine Amsterdam with 3 ocean tiles and 3 marsh tiles to begin with. It would be a challenge. It would be realistic. Maybe it could be compensated with tulip's as an extra unique resource on the polders.

Marsh is a terrain feature, not a terrain. So there is no "start near marsh" Grassland is as close as you get. And I have a feeling that starting bias with 2 bias would not work correctly.

draaibaar · Sep 2, 2012

Yzman said:
Marsh is a terrain feature, not a terrain. So there is no "start near marsh" Grassland is as close as you get. And I have a feeling that starting bias with 2 bias would not work correctly.

In your first post you mentioned forest, jungle and rivers as start bias, all features.

Yzman · Sep 2, 2012

draaibaar said:
In your first post you mentioned forest, jungle and rivers as start bias, all features.

Hmm that is true. Perhaps it is as you say, it would be too big of a disadvantage if you said "start bias marsh". I could imagine being stuck in a capital surrounded by marsh.

Starting Biases

Emperor

King

King of the Beers

Deity

Emperor

Deity

Prince

Emperor

Deity

Emperor

Warlord

Benelovent Chieftain of the Ursu Kingdom

Ermahgerd

Warlord

Warlord

Deity

Warlord

Deity

Warlord

Deity

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