Social Policies for science victory

Was playing a game as Babylon and I noticed that I awkwardly had to decide between completing the ideologies when I had enough culture or getting things out of rationalism. What's stronger?

How should we know, especially with so little information? You have to decide for yourself, judging by your situation.

VainoValkea said:

How should we know, especially with so little information? You have to decide for yourself, judging by your situation.

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haha thats true I guess, sorry.

you're generally going to want a combination of rationalism and ideology. investments into culture in the midgame really pay off with being able to get these policies quickly so you can get both. It shouldn't be either/or.

Mind you that Rationalism is a pretty odd bag of good abilities and weaker/situational ones. The finisher allows you to faith buy Great Scientists, which is a big condition - if you have lots of faith to spare, I say rationalism is worth opening totally. If not, you only get one free tech which isn't entirely worthless but not worth the policies either in most circumstances, if you've got anything better to invest them on.

Rationalism plays well with Freedom, so choose policies from each. Rationalism has +25% great scientists and Freedom has +25% to all (I think that's right). I haven't done the math to compare if it stacks vs. multiplies but more GS = more free bulbs since you typically don't plant GS after industrial opener (maybe Korea would or if you pick World Congress resolutions that boost landmarks). After that, Rationalism is a lot more situational - wide empires might appreciate gold for science buildings, small ones might not get much from that when there are other policies to take. The finisher is OK if taken late in the game because techs cost huge amounts. I tend to delay Oxford and Rationalism finisher until I need some big techs for a VC (typically dom, sometimes space) and then chain them together to get 2 techs back-to-back. I tend to war a lot so the bonus to research agreements is no help but if you go friendly that can be valuable to.

It definitely is not as overpowered as before, which I think is good. Now it has very specific usages and balances better and I like the synergy with other trees. The only downside is in every, seriously every, BNW game I have played the AIs have never taken policies from it which means I have PT all to myself. That's a shame. Could be sample size, I haven't played against Korea yet in BNW and Neb never does well in my games.

unohu said:

Rationalism plays well with Freedom, so choose policies from each. Rationalism has +25% great scientists and Freedom has +25% to all (I think that's right). I haven't done the math to compare if it stacks vs. multiplies...

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All multipliers like this are, as far as I know, percentage points. So +25% from rationalism, +25% from ideology, +25% from garden, +25% from national epic and +25% from Pisa sum up to 125% increase. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I like the idea of my nation to be technologically advanced theocracy, with inquisitors of the Church wield lightning swords and laser pistols and such (like in Warhammer 40k), so Piety and Rationalism all the way for me!!!

If you have excess policies, by the way, consider late-game liberty! If you seriously have nothing else worth unlocking but culture keeps flowing in, there's some happiness, a free golden age and a free GP in there waiting for you!

There's quite a few possibilities in BNW:

1. Early on after finishing the first tree and waiting for Rationalism
You can open Patronage and then select that renamed policy that raises the resting point by 20 points for the same friendship abuse as before.

2. You could open one of several policies just for the world wonder. If you're concerned with AI giving bad resolutions, open Patronage just to build the wonder giving yourself two more votes.
Or if wanting more tourism so your citizens don't revolt against your ideology later, opening both Astechics & Exploration will grant a couple of wonders with large theming bonuses.

I would tend to complete Rationalism before putting any more into the ideology. (Other than the free ones.)
Then if you completely fill the ideology (or run out of useful ones) you can always see if any policy wasn't opened at all by the AI and open it just for the wonder and start cherry picking the best policies.

Well key for the Ideologies is that the level 3 are only useful near the end. (For the actual parts) So that is probably the last one to take... As for the rest how much will they help you?

17% universities... Good (tp bonus)
2 from specialists... Good
50% from research...depends

25%
To GS good
To all ok

25% from factories...Good

That's pretty much all the science boosters.

Otherwise the indirect science effect the ideologies have
Happiness .. Depends Good IF you need it
Specialist food.... Good
Great Improvement bonus... depends

Generic empire boosts... Only good if needed

So probably priority
1. 25% factories, specialist food
2. 2 specialsit, 17% univ
3. Finish rationalism IF lots of RAs
4. Get ready 2 tier 2 tenets (ready for tier 3)
5. Rationalism IF tech is still holding you back
6. Tier3 to get parts