What to look for before War

I have been searching the forums for some math benchmarks of whether or not my force can take a city before I declare war. I have seen a lot of threads that say you should attack with your composites quickly but at what city strength is it time to back off and wait for xbows? is there a visual clue to the presence of walls in an AI city or do I need a spy to see the building (because Walls add HP to the city thus lengthens the time needed for the attack, right)?

I'm looking for benchmarks like
1) X bows can take a Y Strength City in a few turns (is there any?)
2) X Comp bows can take a Y Strength city in a few turns
3) X xbows can take a Y Strength city in a few turns

I think after xbows, I want cannons and artillery so I'll stop there.

What else is there to look for before a siege? I did read good advice on looking for Goddess of Protection and Tradition (Oligarchy) before attacking because a city defense number doesn't reflect that.

Is the above math as simple as your archers strength needs to be more than half the city? What are the experts rules of thumb in this context? Thanks!!

There was an old thread in the academy section that I think was vanilla but had the math of attacking / defending, I just don't know how relevant that info is anymore after expansions and patches.

city strength is one thing, terrain is another.

If the city is surrounded by hills / forest, then your ranged units need to be up close. Is the city on a hill? is there a river(s) to cross? Yuck. This makes an "undefended" city hard to capture.

Also look out for religion as that can impact defenses quite a bit sometimes.

after all that, consider the city defense rating Its literally the least important thing by itself. (IMHO)

I have been searching the forums for some math benchmarks of whether or not my force can take a city before I declare war.

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Math is for nerds

What I usually do is just compare the # of techs I have vs the # of techs the AI has. If I have a reasonable sized force, my army is reasonably up to date and there isn't too much of a tech disparity I know I have a good chance to take a city. If all else fails, I can usually tell by the "1 shot test". If a city is 1 shotting my units, its time to retreat.

I appreciate the input BenitoChavez, but I am looking for that info before the one shot test. I want to gather my troops and just before I declare war know that first city is mine. I have been doing the one shot test and feel like someone out there has a better method.

JeSuisNapolean, I know I will be slowed by terrain before the city, but if the city is on hills that is reflected in their strength, right? Also, if I had an example of 4 comps vs. 26 str, in 2 turns roughly (totally made up that is the kind of thing I am looking for though), I could look at whether I can position 4 comps around the city...

As a rule of thumb - take 5 composite bowmen and approach the city so you get at least 4 shots in each turn.
Have a couple of infantry/horse fairly local to take the city capture when they are weak enough.
Retreat your CBs back when they are hurt below 50%.

Heretiv said:

As a rule of thumb - take 5 composite bowmen and approach the city so you get at least 4 shots in each turn.

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Five modern ranged units should be more than enough under any situation. On good terrain, where 3+ units can step into range and fire, the city falls quick! On hills, five ranged units is enough to cycle out a unit every turn before the city falls. So maybe your formula is 3 + No. hills/forest up to a max of 5? If your ranged units are not modern, I think I would double the number! And this only works for bows/cb/xb, not gat/mg.

Ok, I get it

I just wanted to stress that the math falls apart without a perfect flow of execution. You will *always* capture a city faster when there is flat land on your attack path.

I would think 4 comps + 2 "other" units is just fine. You cant make the final capture without a pike or horseman. Enemy units will complicate this as well.

Its best to have at least one "Meat shield" unit to absorb City defenses so you archers can pick away at the city without getting hit. Two or more of these meat shield units is better once the city defenses are large (30+) or if there is a unit inside the city. You will need to cycle them in and out. A horseman (or better mounted unit) is ideal for the final capture, since they can stay outside the defenses and make the final capture at full health. They are good for other things too.

I would also think chariot archers could be an interesting substitute in the early game.

I did read the chariot archer option in another thread, the strength of them is close to composite earlier and the rotation would be easier.

I appreciate everyone's input so far, and maybe my question really boils down to the mechanics of how much damage will I do if my archer has these upgrades and the city is worth X, what is the formula that shows up in the lower left of my screen when I am at war, and how can I calculate that myself while not at war, and is it different for cities vs. other units. There is an academy article linked below but it was vanilla, and I want to know if there is more updated math out there.

I am trying to stimulate discussion so Amarr Emporer and I can get the answer to his question here

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=432238&page=3

The effect of rough terrain ultimately boils down to reducing the number of shots per turn you're able to fire at a city using x number of ranged units, because of movement cost and/or blocked lines of sight. Thus the terrain makes it take longer to bring the city down, which results in more hp healed by the city between turns, which in turn draws the siege out even more; at a certain point the balance is in favor of the city and the attacking force simply isn't strong enough to win.

The math that is worth knowing is: how many shots from bows/comp-bows/x-bows are needed to bring down a city of strength y? And how many additional shots are required for each turn of delay due to city healing?

A few complicating factors: defending ranged units in our around the city; potential loss of attacking ranged units; availability of improvements that can be pillaged to help keep attackers alive; melee attacks on the city.