Tourism - bit of a grind still?

a1nosweat · Oct 23, 2013

I may be missing something, but the tourism mechanic leaves me cold. Love BNW in every other way.

With every other mechanic it feels like that I am in control of my CIV and that there is there is no 'correct' choice (possible exception of rationalism).

With tourism however It feels that if I don't mess about for theming bonus's then I am missing out. each game I ought to work out the theming bonuses for wonders build and get works which apply. Swapping works seems totally arbitrary (which might not be a bad thing). It feels like maxxing out tourism is a no-brain choice with no option other than not maxxing out tourism(hope thats clear). This takes time away from building my CIVs history...

Getting around this by playing a scientific game doesn't quite cut it as I could still be getting 'more' with no opportunity cost.

Could there be an automate button? or could an advisor suggest when theming bonuses were available? Or have I missed something?

I'd turn tourism off it it were an option withou going back to GnK

Arkymedes · Oct 23, 2013

^ great question. I also share the same points and would like to know what the others have to say. An automated button would really help since matching works of art is tedious, at least for me.

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reticentbassist · Oct 23, 2013

I think the little mini game of finding and trading for/conquering the best works of art for your Themeing bonuses is fun! Although, I have been having a hell of a time winning a Cultural Victory on King and Emperor difficulties. There always seems to be at least 1 other Civ with POWERHOUSE culture.

ilik · Oct 23, 2013

This thread shouldn't be here. Theming Bonus is a no-brainer, yes. But that's what gives strategy. Otherwis you could just go spam Great Works and make a load of artifacts, hotels, airports, stuff like that and win.

And to arkymedes, if you think it's tedious to sort Great Works and artifacts, you're just impatient

ilik · Oct 23, 2013

reticentbassist said:
I think the little mini game of finding and trading for/conquering the best works of art for your Themeing bonuses is fun! Although, I have been having a hell of a time winning a Cultural Victory on King and Emperor difficulties. There always seems to be at least 1 other Civ with POWERHOUSE culture.

Same lol. Runaway civs.........

Well, I don't play on King.

bbbt · Oct 23, 2013

Honestly, I think it's a little confusing at first and actually looks a lot more complicated than it really is. Once you get the hang of it, it's pretty quick (certainly much faster than, say, trying to position your troops for an attack on a city.)

If you hover over the little theming bonus indicator (i.e the +1) next to the wonder name, it'll tell you what the wonder requires. It'll either be all from the same civ/era or all from different civ/eras. They're always the same every game, the theming bonuses don't change.

You can generally find the works you want to trade with a few tries, unless you're playing on a tiny map or such with only a few civs, and then you might have to check back a number of times more, waiting for someone to finally offer a different era work.

Arkymedes · Oct 23, 2013

It's not that I'm impatient, but I find that it takes me away from the game somehow. For me, in my opinion, it doesn't fit with the game and it is an unnecessary burden.

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jogi · Oct 23, 2013

I found the descriptions of what you need for certain theming bonuses to be confusing at first, before I realized that you can partially fulfill the requirements to earn a partial bonus. Museums, for example, require that both GWs are from the same era, OR are either both from your civ, or both from civs other than yours. Fulfilling either requirement gives you a +1 bonus, and if you match both you'll get +2.

Irkalla · Oct 23, 2013

I feel that the whole curation system is just a gimmick. It adds nothing to the game except for a minigame which, itself, is not that fun.

Matthew. · Oct 23, 2013

If I'm reading the OP correctly, the complaint is tourism ends up feeling like an all or nothing approach. I can agree with that. If you don't snag some of the culture wonders to get theming bonuses, you'll never generate enough tourism to compete. As for defense (against tourism and ideology) you end up getting enough culture through city-states and great writers where the +2 culture/tourism from a great work is so minor, you aren't missing much.

After playing a number of BNW games so far, they end up being very decisive, similar to religion in most cases: I either completely ignore the system, or I go all out. Rarely do I bother with any middle-ground, as it just doesn't pay off. In Religion, that is having a religion so late that you will never gain any ground on pressure, in the new tourism that is generating a trivial 8-10 tourism when you could just bulb writers/artists for quicker policies and golden ages.

Frossa · Oct 24, 2013

I play on Emperor, and on that level it's not even worth trying to go for a Culture victory unless you're France (I had over 600 Tourism by 2000 AD, compared to like 150 as Germany the same year with the same effort).

katfish · Oct 24, 2013

Frossa said:
I play on Emperor, and on that level it's not even worth trying to go for a Culture victory unless you're France (I had over 600 Tourism by 2000 AD, compared to like 150 as Germany the same year with the same effort).

Nope. I play on emperor most of the time and culture victory easiest to achieve.
And after patch is worth goin for tourism even if you dont aim for culture victory.
And what with those 2000ad? I finish my games before 1900 most of the time, i think you're doin something seriously wrong.

Heretiv · Oct 24, 2013

Now now, some people take longer than others.

Frossa · Oct 24, 2013

Well, I play with a lot of aggressive AIs, so I tend to favor military strengthening over building early culture buildings, like the Parthenon.

CultureManiac · Oct 24, 2013

I think tourism points are a great addition to the game. It means you can go for a culture win without having to go into a shell all game, like you had to if you wanted a culture victory in Civ4 and GNK. It means even warmongers need to play a more balanced game or they will develop discontent in their cities later, and culture civs need to do more than just hang on until riflemen. Tourism points are a much better mechanic for a culture victory than building a utopia project. Sure, swapping works for theming bonuses feels a bit gimmicky, but how many times a game do we have to do that? 3-4? It's not hard at all.

Love the new CV mechanic. It forces me to play a whole game and consider a whole range of factors, not just follow a formula and hit NEXT TURN until I complete Utopia shortly after the beginning of the modern era.

katfish · Oct 24, 2013

Frossa said:
Well, I play with a lot of aggressive AIs, so I tend to favor military strengthening over building early culture buildings, like the Parthenon.

I never build build Parthenon, the only worthwhile wonders are GL Gardens and Oracle.

johnny_rudeboy · Oct 24, 2013

Partheon is a nice building. Gives you an early culture boost and also +2 in tourism way before anything else generate tourism. I usually build it in my 2nd city (if possible) so that it to generate culture from early on. That way when I do pick "Flourishing of the arts" from the Aesthetics SP that city generates 33% more culture. And last time I played as France I started with Liberty and finished it, getting a GE, who helped me build a World wonder even in my 3rd city. Liberty is a great opener for France btw since you will build a lot of Chataues(?) and really need that extra speed on improvements. And if you dont plan the placement well you will end up like I had to do and raze several of them, build new improvements then rebuild them again to maximize the number of chatues you can have around each luxury.

I actually feel in the mood to play as France once again now.

njmfff · Oct 24, 2013

ilik said:
This thread shouldn't be here. Theming Bonus is a no-brainer, yes. But that's what gives strategy. Otherwis you could just go spam Great Works and make a load of artifacts, hotels, airports, stuff like that and win.

And to arkymedes, if you think it's tedious to sort Great Works and artifacts, you're just impatient

Agree. It's kinda of mini-game where you have to decide when to use GP. If you know you'll advance in next era, you can decide not to use GA right away, so you can, let's say, get three GWoA from same era to complete theme bonus. Or you can use one, then wait to get into next era to use another one. So, it's bit fun to play that mini-game.

or... going out to conquer other civs Cities because they have plenty GW and you didn't bother with your culture.

johnny_rudeboy said:
Partheon is a nice building. Gives you an early culture boost and also +2 in tourism way before anything else generate tourism.

Yeah, it's a good wonder, but much like GL, you can't get it on Deity. AI loves building it.

katfish · Oct 24, 2013

njmfff said:
Yeah, it's a good wonder

What. Get writers and here is your earlier tourism, +4 culture is a joke and it doesn't even give any GP points.

Like imagine Poland UA "+4 cpt every new era"
Its nowhere near Oracle.

bbbt · Oct 24, 2013

If I'm going for a cultural victory, hanging gardens is my top priority early wonder by far - it's a major boost for the great person generation. 2nd is maybe stonehenge (for the quick religion) or artemis (for the population boost), but both of those are near impossible on higher levels (and hanging gardens is unlikely).

I never built the parthenon on higher levels, and I usually don't bother with the oracle unless I've got hammers to spare - while it's nice, if I'm going cultural, I'm generally going to get a lot of social policies anyways (I don't usually bother with piety - sacred sites isn't really worth the gamble and all the policies to get there).

My top two priorities for great wonders in the medieval era for cultural are pisa and sistine chapel, which is a pain as they are completely different branches.

Tourism - bit of a grind still?

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