How to rush great library and petra
- Thread starter mclericp
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Start with Pottery\Writing right from the start if you want GL.
Same with Petra, go straight for it. If you're lucky you might even get GE for Petra, eg. finishing up Liberty and picking GE.
On Immortal\Diety, forget about GL, you won't get it 99%, but you still have chance of building Petra since it's terrain based wonder.
Same with Petra, go straight for it. If you're lucky you might even get GE for Petra, eg. finishing up Liberty and picking GE.
On Immortal\Diety, forget about GL, you won't get it 99%, but you still have chance of building Petra since it's terrain based wonder.
Magma_Dragoon
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don't
bcaiko
Emperor
If you're going for Great Library on King/Emperor (which is doable - I do it all the time), you'll have to go for it right away. njmfff is correct that you should immediately go Pottery and Writing. Set in your Granary ASAP while you're waiting for Writing to come online and make sure you acquire a worker.
The best way to snag the Great Library is to chop a couple of forest tiles. An early mine or two will also help out.
But you shouldn't try to build the Great Library in every game. If you have low production but high food, just put in a regular library and move on to something else. Or if you don't *need* a high cost early tech like Iron Working, it's probably not worth the opportunity cost.
The best way to snag the Great Library is to chop a couple of forest tiles. An early mine or two will also help out.
But you shouldn't try to build the Great Library in every game. If you have low production but high food, just put in a regular library and move on to something else. Or if you don't *need* a high cost early tech like Iron Working, it's probably not worth the opportunity cost.
kaspergm
Deity
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I agree, your luck with Petra will be very dependant on whether an AI has a major city that qualifies for building it. If a civ with desert bias is in the game, Petra tends to go pretty fast. On the other hand, if no such civ is in the game, sometimes Petra is available even if you don't rush it.
I keep going for the GL and regretting it. I could have built so much in that same time.... had a better city for it. I think I'll forget it.
Petra on the other hand... man... last game, perfect Petra city... 2 turns left and snatched. It was snatched from me. I'm sure I could have made up those two turns with some clever planning. I just figured that I was going for it early and I had a good start. Just goes to show you.
What's amazing to me in Civ is how often I am 1-2 turns from a wonder when it gets snatched. Is that coincidence or are the programmers just evil geniuses?
Petra on the other hand... man... last game, perfect Petra city... 2 turns left and snatched. It was snatched from me. I'm sure I could have made up those two turns with some clever planning. I just figured that I was going for it early and I had a good start. Just goes to show you.
What's amazing to me in Civ is how often I am 1-2 turns from a wonder when it gets snatched. Is that coincidence or are the programmers just evil geniuses?
PhilBowles
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It's very doable, but not usually a good idea because rushing Writing tends to mean missing any of Temple of Artemis, Hanging Gardens, Stonehenge (if playing a faith strategy), or with the right terrain Petra or the Colossus, since they're along tech paths you're neglecting, and all are highly prized by the AI.
As for Petra, that's happily on the same tech path as Hanging Gardens, but you'll only either get or want Petra if you have a good desert production site. In a site like that, HG can usually be completed in about the same time it takes to get Currency, which means you can assign three additional citizens to production to maximise the chance of getting Petra. HG isn't essential for grabbing Petra, but it both makes it easier and makes the city a powerhouse in its own right (and a fantastic Engineer factory - both HG and Petra produce GE points, and the HG's Garden adds an extra 25% boost to GE production).
HerrDoktor
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Up to Emperor, you can snatch both and maybe even Hanging Gardens if you go Tradition and chop forests for Great Library. If you then pick Philosophy and build the National College ASAP, the time you'll take researching the Petra path will be greatly reduced, so you can generally compensate for not beelining from the start. I actually once missed Petra by a long shot by beelining to it, as my science was too low and it took me an eternity to research Currency.
Another (risky) option is going Liberty and having the Great Engineer ready the moment you research Currency. Recommended only for Egypt or if you have Marble, as you'll probably miss the Great Library and other wonders.
Civilmyzation
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yeah its doable on king/emp, you just have to do what was said above with granary and worker.
if you have a shot at petra, and the perfect base, and you don't do everything possible to increase production and limit turns, then you deserve to lose it with 2 turns left. just the truth. I never get it without serious effort put towards citizen management.
if you have a shot at petra, and the perfect base, and you don't do everything possible to increase production and limit turns, then you deserve to lose it with 2 turns left. just the truth. I never get it without serious effort put towards citizen management.
In the same game??? Unless none of the AIs have a desert start, you'll need to play on Prince to have a decent shot at both. You'll still need to build GL first though since even at Prince if you build Petra first an AI might take GL.
Below is on the standard map size with the standard number of players: (8 players including yourself)
Just Petra: Easy on King if you don't build GL and following Philosophy beline to Currency.
That tactic isn't assured on Emperor; but if you can't get Petra without delaying NC it's counter productive. (Science is King)
Just Great Library: On King this is you want at least an average raw hammer start (NOT a poor one); Tradition; worker first, Pottery then Mining (forest choping & mines), then Writing. Following standard scout, build a Worker and Granary and when they completes start GL.
On Emperor, that is similar except you either want a very good raw hammer start and/or skip the scout and start with the worker.
Race for GL is very hairy, even on King if you stack the game with max AI players. Playing quick on Emperor, I shoot to have it by turn 28 or forget about it. Even then, I've had AI's steal it as early as 22. Turn 26 is usually a safe bet (sorry, haven't played Normal in so long that I forget which turn is optimal at that speed). Obviously, Tradition can help, so can the Monument of the Gods pantheon. Me, I don't usually go for Petra, but I follow GL with Mausoleum. That wonder can allow for a Great Person-based economy, particularly if you get a religion.
Koiranputki
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I wonder about that sometimes as well ...
I typically play at the Emperor level....and usually I don't bother with the GL....the trade-off usually isn't good enough....though in some games I might get a "sense" the GL may be doable.... If I get that "sense', I'll go for it....no guarantee, of course, but I'll often get it.
Petra is a bit different, it depends on factors you likely won't know about when "Petra decision time" arrives.... If I have a really good site, I hope that I will have a GE ready...which often happens and then I'll typically get it...sometimes a "one-turn snatch" occurs, but not too often.
Other times if it's a marginal Petra site, I may give it a shot ...as much for the extra trade route as for any tile benefits... I'll hard-build it and sometimes I'll get it... What will often gall me in that situation if I don't get it, is when I finally see the successful Petra city, the AI will have built it in some really marginal situation ...
yeah, but you can still have a shot at it if you finish Liberty in time for GE.
alto, I would never settle desert city just so I can build Petra. If Petra fails, you'll probably end up with useless city.
Ps. Don't you hate when AI has just one desert title and builds Petra, just because he could?
Seen it happen several times. Warmaul
Chieftain
The best way i found to achieve that is by using shoshone's pathfinders.
Choose to add citizens to your capital from ancient ruins anytime you can, this way you'll have at least a 5/6 city when you'll start building the GL. Pick aristocracy, steal a worker to chop some woods and you are fine. Also the tall capital will allow you to reach and get Petra. This works on immortal.
Choose to add citizens to your capital from ancient ruins anytime you can, this way you'll have at least a 5/6 city when you'll start building the GL. Pick aristocracy, steal a worker to chop some woods and you are fine. Also the tall capital will allow you to reach and get Petra. This works on immortal.
HerrDoktor
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I know this is obvious to veterans, but just to clarify: the reason you can't try Great Library above Emperor is because AI starts with Pottery, so they have 10 or more turns in advance to build it. And it seems that every AI tries for Great Library.
Some mentioned the "feeling" of being able to do build it. Actually, there's a logic behind it. Aside from having good initial production, if you notice someone proposing an Embassy before you researched Writing, that means they already have that tech and so it's very likely they're already building it. Of course, if nobody does that, that doesn't proof that somebody you didn't met isn't doing exactly the same thing.
Some mentioned the "feeling" of being able to do build it. Actually, there's a logic behind it. Aside from having good initial production, if you notice someone proposing an Embassy before you researched Writing, that means they already have that tech and so it's very likely they're already building it. Of course, if nobody does that, that doesn't proof that somebody you didn't met isn't doing exactly the same thing.
AI starts with Pottery starting with King.
What happens on Immortal is that the AI also starts with a free worker and a couple more worker techs so he can also do things to increase hammer production and probably chop a forest before it completes as well.
reddishrecue
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AIs usually start with other social policies other than tradition or liberty so you can use this as your advantage if you lose the wonders in the deity and immortal level. Since the AI is most likely to beat you to the GL when you rush technologies from pottery and writing, one can also rush to masonry for the pyramids if one started with a liberty start or rush to mathematics for the hanging gardens if one started with tradition. However, good starts with many hammers and forests can help rush great library and petra.
PhilBowles
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In BNW the AI early game strategy varies a lot more, and many AIs won't prioritise Writing, so you always have a shot at GL on Emperor. It's doable on Immortal because the AI doesn't usually seem to beeline getting the GL as soon as it gets Writing, but probably only on smaller maps and only by sacrificing too much in terms of other early units/buildings you need to make it worth it. Writing isn't an ideal second tech on higher difficulties in most cases because the city isn't large enough by that point for a library to be worthwhile quite yet (I wouldn't build a Library at least until the population hits 5 - before that point a trade caravan will produce as much science, and taking a different tech path lets you build that caravan and still get the library in time), and you won't have settled anywhere else.
just chop chop chop.
Worst case go for it normally and then chop when the wonder is about to finish, since AIs love to beat you by one turn. This sometimes screws their calculations.
oh, and have enough sense not to go for it when in a bad jungle start.
Petra is easier to get. Just beeline it after writing. Your cap should be approaching size 10 with a granary and maybe water mill and some mined hills ready when currency comes online. Below deity, this is pretty gettable.
Worst case go for it normally and then chop when the wonder is about to finish, since AIs love to beat you by one turn. This sometimes screws their calculations.
oh, and have enough sense not to go for it when in a bad jungle start.
Petra is easier to get. Just beeline it after writing. Your cap should be approaching size 10 with a granary and maybe water mill and some mined hills ready when currency comes online. Below deity, this is pretty gettable.
