Sitting Bull's Espionage game - Emperor (strats)

I'm working on strats for using the N.A.I.A. as a major component in winning my games? What's the N.A.I.A., you ask? Top secret, but just for you, I'll fill you in: it's the Native American Intelligence Agency.

Sitting Bull is favored by an espionage economy in a couple of ways. For one, the protective trait and his UB make him ridiculously hard to dislodge early on if played well, which makes early wars less of a threat. Meanwhile, you build up the Network. You know, the contacts. The people with the info. You find out things. And then you steal Feudalism and save a lot of beakers while enabling Longbowmen all in one go.

Yeah, that's the stuff.

Double production of castles makes the Espionage go a bit faster, of course, with Economics being an avoidable tech for a good long while, in the name of keeping up the +25%. In exchange, you can run Mercantilism so that you can use each city's Courthouse spy for free, although depending on your trade routes and whether or not you have an overseas colony to help your commerce along, that may not always be advisable. Bottom line, though, is that an Espionage Economy is yummy for stealing all of those techs you'd rather not help the AI out by trading for, and can save you some really stiff beaker costs when played right. And don't forget that Great Wall: SB's philosophical trait loves it. A few thousand EPs for that Great espionage mission? Sure, I'll take that--and a few techs alongside. Maybe some gold from the treasury. Maybe a city after making it revolt. Okay, not on Emperor that early if we've been doing all this other stuff, but hey, it's a nice thought!

So let 'em expand close. Let 'em get right in your capital's face. And then, when they least expect it, yoink whatever techs you need.

But be careful. Don't have so much fun laughing at the AI that you forget to win the Lib race. A Great Scientist from one of your other cities can help with Education, I hear. But don't bother bulbing Philosophy if you can help it--just nab that from someone else. Assuming they bothered to research it. And are on your continent.

For those who have walked on the Spy side for a longer amount of time--what tips do you have to share? What threads and resources already exist? And just how do you balance setting up an EE with the ongoing early need to be able to handle some of your research by yourself?

I will take a stab at offering some tips. I am no hardcore civver, and only a noble player, but 99% of the time I end up running EE so I suppose I have some advice to offer that may or may not be helpful to you. =)

Great Wall or bust: This is probably obvious to most, but painfully obvious to those that try to EE without it. The difference (in Marathon mode anyway) is getting your first GSpy around CoL time compared to having zero GSpy points until after CoL. The "or bust" is exaggerated because you can do fine without it, but the lack of GSpy points is really hard in the early game.

Great Spy: You only NEED one. You can put more to use, but the Scotland Yard in your main spy city is essential. This gives the EE some flexibility. Great Spies after the first are a greater source of EP than any other GP, but your empire needs to do things other than spy and you might want to use your GP to those purposes instead. Personally I try for Great Merchants and use them to fund the military and run the slider at 100% EP but I haven't done any math to calculate that as the best strategy.

Tale of Two Cities: Lately I've been using a two-city strategy for my EE, but I don't know if everyone will like this idea. I spell it out here in an effort to offer ideas. The first city, usually my capital, will be the GP farm AND the primary Cash City. The second city is the Super Spy City. Here is how it usually runs down for me:
- Cash City/GP Farm: Create the Great Wall here and then sit on it until you get a GSpy. I generally end up producing units from this city in the early phase.
- Super Spy City (SSC): Scout out a nice spot with plenty of flat land in the middle of your planned empire. The middle is good because we're going to cottage it up and move our palace here, so the cottages won't be on the vulnerable borders and obviously the palace is good in the middle. Build the Scotland Yard here with your first Great Spy and move your palace here. If you run out of things to build get a wall going, you'll need it for the castle later. Obviously you're going to build every Espionage building here. Cottage everything you can, maybe leave a square or two for production depending on how you like to roll.
- Back to CC/GPFarm: Caste System is good, get those merchant specialists rolling. Build some merchant wonders if you like. Settle your Great Merchants here. Extra food means more specialists and cash money. Build all the cash buildings here. Hopefully you'll be able to fund your whole empire with this city and run at 100% Espionage. You could possibly do the same thing with scientists, I haven't tried; I let the other civs do my researching. You could try for GSpies instead, they are the best source for spy points settled in your SSC or building a Scotland Yard in other cottage cities, but then who will fund your empire? You're still getting GSpy points so maybe you'll end up with one without trying? That's not a bad thing either, but the +beaker on the settled GSpy is wasted in my setup. Oh, I should point out this is a GP farm so improve for food or even some production. Don't worry about cottages because at 100% Espionage you're not serving your focus of being a cash city.

The Palace: Moving the palace to your SSC seems like a pretty solid plan, minus the turns you waste building it. With Scotland Yard your palace makes 8 EP instead of just 4, but what's really great is running Bureaucracy. +50% commerce in your capital? Can I get a hell yeah? Nationalism looks sexy because it has a red circle with the black hat guy on it, but I've often found you'll get more EP from Bureaucracy with this setup (haven't done the math on that though.) You can probably do either one depending on how many supporting Espionage cities you have. More secondary spy cities means Nationalism might serve you better. The other effects of both civics are nice as well so I give thumbs up to either one that works for you. Maybe down the road Free Speech works for you too, but it hasn't served me well - it would be hard to beat +25% EP I'd imagine.

Hit the seas: Don't be satisfied to spy only on the civs on your continent. When you get metal casting build at least two triremes. Once you get Optics upgrade them to Caravels and send them out to circumnavigate the globe ASAP - ignore exploration of the seas until then. Carrying explorers can help too so they can run across any big continents that get in your way. The +1 movement will be helpful as you ferry spies across the globe so it's worth doing.

Carry me across the finish line: You don't need to win the Lib race. Just steal both techs, IMO.

Teching in an EE: I suppose you could make another specialist city and set it up with scientists. Then you could do some tech too. Will it work? I really don't know because I'm too lazy to do my own research. Early on get your essential techs, build libraries in your money making cities if you run out of more important things, and beeline for Alphabet. Once you hit Alpha check the tech situation. If you're behind switch to EE, if you're ahead grab CoL and/or Optics. After Optics and CoL I'll always switch to EE. The AI takes way too long to get Optics IMO so that's why I'd get it myself many times.

Information should be free!: Don't hoard tech. Trade tech before stealing it. Save your EP for other stuff, generate goodwill with the AI, and reduce the chance of spy loss and the bad rep that comes with it. Gift techs to the guy that's way behind and make friends with him, who cares if he can finally build libraries, right? heh. And remember that AIs that spend time researching techs you already have are not helping you. You alone know what every civ is researching (you do, right?) so make sure to manipulate them properly.

Working the weights: Set everyone to a weight of 1 in the Espionage screen. Get enough points on all the AI so that you can see what they are researching. Then turn the unimportant guys to 0 weight, but keep all the semi-important people to at least a weight of 1 just in case. Set your primary target(s) to 5 or so... worry more about the numbers than the weights. Figure that you're going to pay roughly half price of the tech in EP so budget for that.

Build them spies: You never have enough spies. They die a lot. I guess it's possible to go overboard, but I've never done it. Too many can turn into too few pretty quickly. If you can have at least one spy being built all the time somewhere in your empire you probably won't regret it.

What to do with all them spy points and them thar gold? I'll leave that up to you. Obviously stealing techs is pretty cool, but so is destroying culture buildings and upgrading your units instead of building new ones.

Anyway, blah blah blah. I know I have tons of flaws in my game, so don't follow my strategy blindly. Hope something in there helps you.

phizuol said:

Great Wall or bust: This is probably obvious to most, but painfully obvious to those that try to EE without it. The difference (in Marathon mode anyway) is getting your first GSpy around CoL time compared to having zero GSpy points until after CoL. The "or bust" is exaggerated because you can do fine without it, but the lack of GSpy points is really hard in the early game.

Click to expand...

That's why I found Gilgamesh easier to use for learning early EE. If he doesn't grab the great wall, priesthood trib' will still give him whatever EE and great spy needed. ANd he's protective too, meaning cheap castles.

The main difference is that Gilgamesh will be more able to quickly rush the first civ in the way to get a nice city, but late-game wise you will miss philosophical.

TheLazyHase said:

That's why I found Gilgamesh easier to use for learning early EE. If he doesn't grab the great wall, priesthood trib' will still give him whatever EE and great spy needed. ANd he's protective too, meaning cheap castles.

The main difference is that Gilgamesh will be more able to quickly rush the first civ in the way to get a nice city, but late-game wise you will miss philosophical.

Click to expand...

Good call. I never noticed that before. I just saw "replaces Courthouse" and instantly thought Code of Laws.

So far I've actually found it more beneficial in the long run to have my first Great Spy conduct an espionage mission (against the nearest AI who has decent tech) in order to get the 3000 espionage points. In the game I started last night I was literally able to live off of that for eight or nine early tech thefts, including Monarchy and Feudalism. (My first GSpy was from the GWall.) It saved me metric tons of beakers and helped me hang on to my own tech lead against the AI in question. (On the other hand, I have since discovered Mansa Musa in my region as well and am going to have to send an espionage mission after him as well before he goes all runaway-techer on me. (I only won the Lib race by the skin of my teeth.)

The thing I really love about the infiltrate city option for GSpies is that the amount of beakers of tech you can get out of doing it is absolutely huge compared to (for instance) bulbing another type of GP for a one-off boost on a single tech.

Currently building the Kremlin and my security bureaus to go along with my Courthouses and Jails. Need to get my Intelligence agencies up and running as well. xD I had an island start with Rameses and Mansa on a galley-accessible landmass nearby. Running Representation for now although I may switch to UniSuff + FS soon since I've got a lot of flood plains and cottaged most of them. Also I built the GLH and have gotten a three GMs to keep my money afloat via Trade Mission, 1100 for the first two and 1300 for the last one. Good times.

I really like the GLH's synergy with an EE, btw. Since I don't want Economics early, that means I also don't want Corporation early, and the GLH helps compensate for both.

I may have to give Gilgamesh a try soon. Priesthood courthouses sound yummy.