Deity Challenge #35 - Greece, Boreal.

Anyone manage to CV this one?

I meant to try an alternate Piety strategy I've been looking into for a while but I've had to replay T250-T255 (yes crazy slow science from piety opener and going wide for more museums/landmarks to offset "poor start") so that I could get 1st place international games - and even with that, 5k faith and internet around T262 I'm not sure that I can salvage this game.

There are far too many culture CSs on the map and the map is so large that the culture runaways are wide/have had at least CS friends, some allies for too many turns. I'll see if I can micro manage the last 30 turns and close this before T300 but I don't quite trust this piety opener. It might have worked on a map with more luxury diversity...

I was 4200 tourism shy off of 7th civ on T309 but over 300 GPP away from my next GM and patronage finisher rng gave me a GE instead of a GM so I settled for diplo.

I might give it another shot with a more traditional CV approach. I got 0 "clutch" wonders because of the wide/slow start from piety opener and I had to go order for happiness and science catch up it :(. I wonder if I could've survived Rome long enough to enact my religion around T275. This would've done just enough more.

Interesting map. The super large landmasses of boreal or highlands or lakes maps are very difficult on CV. Even more so if you miss on Sistine since all AIs are bound to go somewhat wider than on a typical Pangaea.

Still on such large maps I swear warmongering based CV are significantly easier and more powerful than regular. I had to build 16 archaeologists for this strat. I could've easily taken 3 capitals and a bunch of greatworks+wonders with just bomber rush instead. Kinda disappointing
 
Huh, was really surprised how easy this one was. Easiest DC for me yet. Didn't someone mention raging barbarians just makes it harder for the AI? I was first to modern era by a long shot. Only real competition was Babylon but easily bribed Rome to attack him. Had RAs with just about everybody.

Anyway, coasted to a 3 city SV in 298 turns. Would have been lot easier with 4 cities I guess :) Didn't really even try hard and mistakenly used Oxford on wrong tech.

Spoiler :


 
One would assume, I suppose, that a Boreal map wouldn't have that many rivers and thus, farmlands.
 
I'm actually trying for a culture victory(turn 130 actually). I never done this type of victory. I'm following your guide Deau, but i also try to understand myself what is going on. All writers, musicians and artists have been settled and have built Sistine. I beelined Printing Press right after and i'm getting some Cathedrals too.

I'm projecting to have Pisa around the turn 145. Ai tech rate is not that fast i'm tied 1st position with Sejong and running waves of 4 RAs at a time. Missed MP by 2 turns unfortunately. I will burn the ge from Pisa for Uffizi like you explain in your guide.

I plan to get Public Schools before Archeology too. I opened 2 policies into Aesthetics after Tradition and opened 2(Secularism) from Rationalism to keep a good tech rate. I will eventually surpass the AI and get opportunities to be first to later wonders. All AIs opened Aesthetics too :eek:.

I got 10 tourism so far i guess it will kick more later because for now it seems slow.
 
Buccaneer said:
One would assume, I suppose, that a Boreal map wouldn't have that many rivers and thus, farmlands.
Click to expand...

Yea was really surprised how good the food generation was especially my cap. 2 wheat + 2 deer + farmland. And Sparta had 3 salt + 2 deer. I still had caravans pumping food, mostly to Corinth in the early game and Sparta mid to late.

Oh and with raging barbs I opened honor and cultivated the whole game with one camp in the south. I had enough culture to get me 1 honor + full tradition + full rati + 3 pat + 6 order to build spaceship parts with engineers.
 
Tabarnak said:
I'm actually trying for a culture victory(turn 130 actually). I never done this type of victory. I'm following your guide Deau, but i also try to understand myself what is going on. All writers, musicians and artists have been settled and have built Sistine. I beelined Printing Press right after and i'm getting some Cathedrals too.

I'm projecting to have Pisa around the turn 145. Ai tech rate is not that fast i'm tied 1st position with Sejong and running waves of 4 RAs at a time. Missed MP by 2 turns unfortunately. I will burn the ge from Pisa for Uffizi like you explain in your guide.

I plan to get Public Schools before Archeology too. I opened 2 policies into Aesthetics after Tradition and opened 2(Secularism) from Rationalism to keep a good tech rate. I will eventually surpass the AI and get opportunities to be first to later wonders. All AIs opened Aesthetics too :eek:.

I got 10 tourism so far i guess it will kick more later because for now it seems slow.
Click to expand...

Hrm I would need to read back through my guide. Unless you have an outstanding faith output, it's typically best not to run GM guild until the internet. I think it was mentioned throughout the thread and that I confirmed Glory7's saying about that but it may be only in one of the late replies. I got into a ******ed busy stretch shortly after release and never managed to find the alternative peaceful CV that I was seeking for "bad starts".

Still though, good luck with that. If you manage to snag a few renaissance wonders with a trad opener it should be doable. But as I mentioned in my angry write-up, the far too many culture CS on the map are adding one layer of difficulty to CV, so is the slower teching pace from bad growth tundra.

My most costly move was the 6th city that capped me on happiness too much in the mid game. I expected CSs to provide missing luxuries on the map but I was wrong.
 
Deau said:
My most costly move was the 6th city that capped me on happiness too much in the mid game. I expected CSs to provide missing luxuries on the map but I was wrong.
Click to expand...

You should have got plenty of other luxes by trading your excess salt and silver for luxes from the other civs. It did take a while (which is why I shied away from 4 cities at the time from low happiness) but around mid game suddenly there is all sorts of extra luxes to trade for like gold, gems, furs, wine, copper.

I bet if you went with 4 city start and avoid that piety you'd pull off a CV. Maybe swap that for honor opening for all the culture farming? That netted me quite a lot over the game. Also, in my game there were several wonders that I noticed didn't get built till quite late including ET. And because of all those freaken culture civs they voted for +33% GWAM production.
 
teqofc said:
You should have got plenty of other luxes by trading your excess salt and silver for luxes from the other civs. It did take a while (which is why I shied away from 4 cities at the time from low happiness) but around mid game suddenly there is all sorts of extra luxes to trade for like gold, gems, furs, wine, copper.

I bet if you went with 4 city start and avoid that piety you'd pull off a CV. Maybe swap that for honor opening for all the culture farming? That netted me quite a lot over the game. Also, in my game there were several wonders that I noticed didn't get built till quite late including ET. And because of all those freaken culture civs they voted for +33% GWAM production.
Click to expand...

I had every single luxury on the map + 3 pagodas, 4 mosques and 3 cathedrals and I still had to get collosseums out far too early in the game. For SV, I wouldn't overly care since I don't need to build all of the culture infrastructure. Especially not when there are 5 culture CS on a map. But for CV, you just need too much hammers in each city.

I even went full left side of patronage to get an extra +10 or +12 happiness from CSs. Full piety means no happiness from monarchy/aristocracy. It's very costly. It's one of the main reasons I've been defending for ages that it is not a viable opener at higher difficulty levels -_-. But I wanted to try a piety settled GP alternate strategy for a long time and I expected the science gap to take significantly longer to overcome on a growth map.


O and sorry, I did take honor opener on top of full piety. I don't think it's viable not to take honor opener with the setting on this map and it really pays itself off until the mid game culture wise but allows to have a significantly better control over the opener.
 
Downloaded this yesterday and played through till about T250. Recently, in the last month or so, my play level has quickly moved from Prince to King to Emperor utilizing the strategies I've learned on the forum; but this was my first deity map.

When I checked demographics I was 8 in everything, until about T200 where I was able to get more luxuries from CS and trade, and became number 1 in approval; but still 8 in everything else. By T250 I had moved to 6/7 in demographics, but that was due to Rome being almost crushed by Sweden.

Since it was raging barbs (and I usually don't play raging barbs), my social policy selection was all over the place. I opened honor; then moved to liberty, getting worker and settler; opened Trad, and 4 culture buildings; moved to the first two in patronage; opened commerce; and then moved to rationalism. Picked Order as my ideology, for the only reason that 6 of my 8 opponents did also and I didn't want any problems, but didn't even pick any tenets before stopping the game.

Was able to get 3 cities and NC up by approximately T110 and Education around T140. Raided a barb camp and kept Egypt's worker, got another from Liberty, and hard built the third. Only had three cities, growth was a problem; by T250 biggest city was 19, others 13 and 18

But was so far behind in science, that I couldn't effectively support an army comparable to what my opponents had. Egypt began haunting my border with military, so I bribed Sweden to go to war with them, this worked and the troops moved away. I financed three wars during the course of play to get Egypt to stay away.

I was trying for diplomatic victory, and doing pretty well paying off the CS with limited funds, until the CS=2 votes era and it was time to elect the world congress leader, then the bribes from Siam and others came fast and furious and I couldn't keep up.

I enjoyed playing this map, it seemed to slow down the pace of the game allowing me to focus on trying to grow cities (a challenge), scouting (also built more scouts than I normally do, learned that from advice on forums), finding luxuries (which were limited in my start location); and focusing more on politics between Civs, because I needed to rely on them more to warmongers away from me.

I thought about playing this out till the bitter end :) since I stopped at about T250-T275, but not sure yet.
 
stainless_steel said:
Downloaded this yesterday and played through till about T250. Recently, in the last month or so, my play level has quickly moved from Prince to King to Emperor utilizing the strategies I've learned on the forum; but this was my first deity map.

When I checked demographics I was 8 in everything, until about T200 where I was able to get more luxuries from CS and trade, and became number 1 in approval; but still 8 in everything else. By T250 I had moved to 6/7 in demographics, but that was due to Rome being almost crushed by Sweden.

Since it was raging barbs (and I usually don't play raging barbs), my social policy selection was all over the place. I opened honor; then moved to liberty, getting worker and settler; opened Trad, and 4 culture buildings; moved to the first two in patronage; opened commerce; and then moved to rationalism. Picked Order as my ideology, for the only reason that 6 of my 8 opponents did also and I didn't want any problems, but didn't even pick any tenets before stopping the game.

Was able to get 3 cities and NC up by approximately T110 and Education around T140. Raided a barb camp and kept Egypt's worker, got another from Liberty, and hard built the third. Only had three cities, growth was a problem; by T250 biggest city was 19, others 13 and 18

But was so far behind in science, that I couldn't effectively support an army comparable to what my opponents had. Egypt began haunting my border with military, so I bribed Sweden to go to war with them, this worked and the troops moved away. I financed three wars during the course of play to get Egypt to stay away.

I was trying for diplomatic victory, and doing pretty well paying off the CS with limited funds, until the CS=2 votes era and it was time to elect the world congress leader, then the bribes from Siam and others came fast and furious and I couldn't keep up.

I enjoyed playing this map, it seemed to slow down the pace of the game allowing me to focus on trying to grow cities (a challenge), scouting (also built more scouts than I normally do, learned that from advice on forums), finding luxuries (which were limited in my start location); and focusing more on politics between Civs, because I needed to rely on them more to warmongers away from me.

I thought about playing this out till the bitter end :) since I stopped at about T250-T275, but not sure yet.
Click to expand...

With this map because of low food, AIs cities don't grow that fast, meaning their SV is usually pretty late. If you can find some way of growing your capitol you will most likely win.
 
Deau said:
Hrm I would need to read back through my guide. Unless you have an outstanding faith output, it's typically best not to run GM guild until the internet. I think it was mentioned throughout the thread and that I confirmed Glory7's saying about that but it may be only in one of the late replies. I got into a ******ed busy stretch shortly after release and never managed to find the alternative peaceful CV that I was seeking for "bad starts".
Click to expand...

Oh well i read that fast for a first time but now i can see what you are telling. I only poped out a single musician so far. I will stop production right now and keep them for later. Not played further turns out yet.
 
Tabarnak said:
Oh well i read that fast for a first time but now i can see what you are telling. I only poped out a single musician so far. I will stop production right now and keep them for later. Not played further turns out yet.
Click to expand...

If your first GMusician is born in modern era, broadway is good investment to go, just assign musician specialists to get their culture, and the fourth one (the third is the free one from broadway) should arrive at the time of Internet. And faith bought 2-3 GMus should be doable (ally religious CS)
 
EEE_BOY said:
If your first GMusician is born in modern era, broadway is good investment to go, just assign musician specialists to get their culture, and the fourth one (the third is the free one from broadway) should arrive at the time of Internet. And faith bought 2-3 GMus should be doable (ally religious CS)
Click to expand...

On this map, because of the 5 culture CSs and Siam as well as the general absurd landmass, you'd need around T225 ish Internet for 2-3 GMs to be enough. Well...unless you catch all wonders and run a rocking 1k+ TPT.
 
I took kb's advice and finished out this game. Lost to Korea's Space victory on T344. Had grown cap to 26 using two food trains. Science was 1025 beakers per turn. I was 10 turns away from a diplo victory.

Although it was a loss, I learned a lot from this game. Going forward not sure if I'm going to try to get a few more wins at Emperor level, or just start playing deity maps and work through the losses until I figure out how to win.
 
stainless_steel said:
I took kb's advice and finished out this game. Lost to Korea's Space victory on T344. Had grown cap to 26 using two food trains. Science was 1025 beakers per turn. I was 10 turns away from a diplo victory.

Although it was a loss, I learned a lot from this game. Going forward not sure if I'm going to try to get a few more wins at Emperor level, or just start playing deity maps and work through the losses until I figure out how to win.
Click to expand...

well nice try (although I think your game might have been doomed when at t250 your cap is still stuck in its teens)
I think on maps like these, fast expansion is suicidal. You only got 3 cities up but your NC came t110, way too late. Grow your cap then expand north to salt. Then get a library there while your cap takes care of things, NC should be buildable by the time philo is researched (salt cities are great so Sparta should have its library in time) don't expand to old faithful too soon (no one's gonna take that spot from you if you don't give them open borders/block with your units)

I didn't get my 3rd up until pretty much all the important national wonders got up (as you can see 3rd city has very bad land so it will be liability if you plant it too soon) then I pretty much treated it as one more granary for my cap. Get sailing (despite it being useless here) once your 3rd is up (so you now have 2 routes, then send both as food trains to cap)

But as you can see even freaking science monsters like Korea finish at t340 :lol: low food really does slow them down a lot.
 
I found capital on top of the marble, and another city near the salt region, so growth is not that bad for a total of 3 cities.

But money is really problematic, has to run huge negative gpt for very long and rely on DoF cash from selling resources. Hence the Honor Peofessional Army really helps making upgrade cheaper. Military CSs also send Austria UU, which are very nice (can survive even with strategic resource penalty). Took out Egypt and Sweden with artillery, now moving on to Rome and add in some WW1 bombers.

Tech path is one city-NC -- turn 102 education -- printing press -- Oxford on dynamite -- biology for oil and then faith bought GS to get to flight. Settled 3 GS.

Which ideology is better for war on this map? Autocracy seems not that good as no coastal city to build the autocracy wonder, may give order a try and choose all happiness policies (I only adopted Freedom for peaceful games so far). Maybe the half production armer units + air support can finish the game quickly before nuclear war.

Edit: Kremlin only works on the city that builds it, never tried it before! But I built Kremlin in the second city, and my capital has BG, Heroic Epic for super promoted units. What a dumb decision! And 50% bonus applies to air units:eek:
 
Well, finally won this long game. T344 SV. Pretty late but science was not my target victory, i wanted to go for domination. However, Rome went so big a runaway at some point i thought i couldn't even win. He was 1 spaceship component away from Science Victory when i finally obliterated him. Even after i captured Rome and most of his big cities, he was still building Spaceship Parts so i had no other options.

After i finished him others have had time to grow of course. Babylon have been my second target as he was putting high Cultural Pressure on my Order with his Autocracy (he had most of the World Wonders in 2 cities) but Nebby actually nuked the cities i captured, slowing me down a lot as i had to make sure not to move too many troops near a city before i would capture it.

I could probably have conquered the rest of the world after babylon, as i had 10 Stealth Bombers with Repair, Logisitics and Range, 5 Blitzing, self repairing Giant Death Robots and half a Dozen X-Com squads but i grew tired. I was one tech short of finishing the tech tree so i threw a great engineer and built the last part of the ship, then left this frozen, radioactive wasteland :rolleyes:
 
Well, 2nd attempt at CV with the more typical 4 city trad approach. Much better than the awkward attempt at Piety strategy. They'd need to significantly reduce the cost increase of great prophets to make piety a viable alternative to CV. That or cap it like they're just pricy missionaries.

Again, this map is a huge stretch for CV. Too many culture CSs. Too much room for AI to expand without triggering any war whatsoever hence making it even more difficult for the human to catch the tech gap/grab some wonders. I'm not sure it would've been as pretty for me had it not been for raging barbs slowing the AI far more than me in the opener.

Had to enact religion around T220 AND hit international games around T255 to push my faith GM (3) strength high enough to not have to spam next turn for 25-30 turns to catch up to Siam/Babylon. I bribed Babylon against more or less every other AI 2 turns before WC for intl games, on the first turn of IG, Siam was now top military strength so I bribed him again against all the AIs I could to attempt to secure IG.

I went Order to try to overcompensate lack of happiness and attempt to get to Internet earlier. I managed Internet somewhere around T230-235 after using 5 bulbs (only planted 3 GSs instead of my usual 4 as I had expanded to a 5th city after archaeology because it could reach 3 dig sites and have good growth. The one spot SE of cap)

I traded a city to Siam and used 3 bulbs 5500/5600/9600(faith) and then had to do the same to Babylon with another faith GM 9600 as the 20% spread from 2 more 9600 bombs wouldn't have overcome the missing 8k tourism for Babylon. It kinda blows conceptually that the best way to bomb is to give a city, DoW and bomb...I like the GM concept but I hate the way they implemented it's on-use ability.

Here's a SS with city locations if anyone is struggling with the map. Account -1 pop to all cities is where I capped out and began to work production (CN tower while teching airports/waiting on last WC for intl games). I used a single food trade route in the entire game to help Corinth catch up early as I didn't have any worker to spare to send over for a solid 40 turns after planting.

Spoiler :



Fun challenge. Brutal map for turn-to-victory min/maxing. I'm so used to only bouncing between Pangaea and archipelago, those all land maps like boreal/highlands/amazon are so crazy huge.
 
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