BarbsPlus for ExtraModMod Preview and Discussion Thread

Are there any pending issue on any of these branches that would make unadvisable to merge at the moment?

I don't think so. My last few games ran pretty stable.
The only problem may be that I mostly won't be able to mod (and fix possible bugs) the next two weeks (but I'll be online).

Somehow the barbarians closely matched our own naval technology, attacking us with ship types we had discovered just 10 or 20 turns before. They already had Man'O'Wars on turn 240.

Thanks for the feedback. IIRC I just scaled the naval unit requirements down a bit while revising the SpawnInfo file (but getting same techs after 20 turns should never happen either way... I'll look if there was a bug with the naval spawns).
 
I don't think so. My last few games ran pretty stable.
The only problem may be that I mostly won't be able to mod (and fix possible bugs) the next two weeks (but I'll be online).

Great! I don't think that will be a problem; since there are a few remaining issues for which I need logs and testing (OOS mostly) I'm going to release a beta of 0.4.0 using the assert target (thanks again for telling me about that makefile!). Any bugs that arise can wait until they are fixed properly before releasing a stable version :)

Thanks for the feedback.

You are welcome!

Since now ExtraModMod is going to include part of BarbsPlus, to keep order and to make things simpler for you I'm going to ask in the release post of 0.4.0-beta1 to give feedback about the features modified by BarbsPlus here instead.

We also want to thank you for your work. After a few testing games my friends and I agree: Wilderness is a huge improvement in how the game plays, making it way more fun, less random and more interesting. This managed to get us hooked into FFH2 again. Thanks! :D
 
Terkhen what's your ETA for the next release of Extramodmod? I have a data dump of game diaries and general design thoughts I want to share, that hopefully will give you a few things to think about.
 
Terkhen what's your ETA for the next release of Extramodmod? I have a data dump of game diaries and general design thoughts I want to share, that hopefully will give you a few things to think about.

I guess you got the wrong thread. I'll answer in the ExtraModMod thread.
 
I have yet to see bears and tigers for repectable trophies...

Cave Bear (pretty rare stronger version of bear) has a Trophy (+10% strength for melee and recon). I think Dancing Bears are already quite good, giving happiness and culture without requiring any other buildings.

I'm open for suggestions on tiger trophies :) (and any ways to enhance gorillas, though they both already give more gold from selling).
 
I'm open for suggestions on tiger trophies :) (and any ways to enhance gorillas, though they both already give more gold from selling).

If tigers ever get a trophy, IMO summoned tigers should not be able to give it. I don't think that FoL needs this kind of buff.
 
If tigers ever get a trophy, IMO summoned tigers should not be able to give it. I don't think that FoL needs this kind of buff.

Already fixed. according to pedia - there are promotions for cave bear and wild tiger trophies, but so far no luck or....
 
There are no Tiger trophies, only Tiger cages. Lions Packs and Panthers (do you mean that?) have Trophies. Panthers are a bit rarer and invisible to non-recon units. Where did you find that information in the pedia?

@Terkhen: True. And actually I can't easily prevent summoned tigers from building a trophy building. Maybe just a +5% or +10% Strength promotion for each unit that captures them? I would start with 5% and raise it if requested. That promotion wouldn't be called trophy then, since it don't has a building like the trophies. "Tiger Strength"?
 
There are no Tiger trophies, only Tiger cages. Lions Packs and Panthers (do you mean that?) have Trophies. Panthers are a bit rarer and invisible to non-recon units. Where did you find that information in the pedia?

Yeah, panters, sorry, but trophy descripitions are there...for both hunting lodges and recon units...
 
When playing on deserts, you frequently face nomad recon units. These barbarian units get a lot of moves each turn and as a result it is sometimes complicated to prevent them from appearing from outside your visible area and attacking units in your territory, and it is also difficult to catch them. This gets specially annoying when you can't catch them in order to kill them either.

I'm not sure if I have mentioned this alread, but I also think that Bandit Lords appear a bit too frequently. Since IMO the goal of bandits should not be conquering cities, I wonder if they should get a penalty when attacking cities.
 
Perhaps instead of nomad recon units, just have nomad 1-move melee units? That way they only get their mobility in the desert, to make them *slightly* less annoying. (could call them Fremen? ^_^)

Maybe instead of being particularly stronger ... Bandit Lords should just give a passive Vs Melee % bonus to other bandit units in the stack. Or even just extra withdrawal to the stack, to signify increased tactics among the group. Or maybe prioritize the pillage_AI over the attack_AI?
 
I'd rather have them have spears... and black turban and be called Aiels :D
 
When playing on deserts, you frequently face nomad recon units. These barbarian units get a lot of moves each turn and as a result it is sometimes complicated to prevent them from appearing from outside your visible area and attacking units in your territory, and it is also difficult to catch them. This gets specially annoying when you can't catch them in order to kill them either.

Perhaps instead of nomad recon units, just have nomad 1-move melee units? That way they only get their mobility in the desert, to make them *slightly* less annoying. (could call them Fremen? ^_^)

Hm, I think recon units get 2 moves in desert, exactly like melee units. The annoying part is that they all have 2 moves, and you usually only have 1 move even with recon units (and a defense penalty).
An obvious fix would be to remove the nomad promotion, but I kind of like how it plays currently, although I agree it's too much pressure. I'll implement a spawning rate reduction for the next version.

The IMO best solution would be to change all "double movement" effects to either plain -1 movement cost (down to a reduction to 1) or really 1/2 movement cost (both would leave nomad melee units at 1 and nomad recon units at 2 moves in deserts). This is done in RifE AFAIK.

I'm not sure if I have mentioned this alread, but I also think that Bandit Lords appear a bit too frequently. Since IMO the goal of bandits should not be conquering cities, I wonder if they should get a penalty when attacking cities.

Maybe instead of being particularly stronger ... Bandit Lords should just give a passive Vs Melee % bonus to other bandit units in the stack. Or even just extra withdrawal to the stack, to signify increased tactics among the group. Or maybe prioritize the pillage_AI over the attack_AI?

I agree Bandit Lords should be rarer. Not sure if city attack penalty or strength reduction is better.
Pillage AI is definitely a good idea. Maybe that keeps them from attacking cities.


Something like a spell applying a promotion with 100% expire rate indeed sounds cool. But that would make the Bandit Lord more special and thus he should be rarer, but on the other hand he's basically just at champion strength. Maybe another stronger and rarer unit should get that effect. Then we would have for example Savage -> Highwayman -> Bandit -> Bandit Lord.
 
lfgr and I have been working on a few proposals to include more content in BarbsPlus. We are looking for feedback about them, and we have decided that this thread is the best place for discussion in order to stay on topic and to allow discussion of other matters to continue normally in the ExtraModMod thread. Please check them out and let us know your opinions, possible corrections and so on. The idea is to include this new content gradually in ExtraModMod. Some of the equipment and perhaps some animals will be included in 0.5.0, while the rest would be some of the main features of 0.6.0.

Equipment

New equipment types are going to be introduced, in order to make lair exploration more eventful and interesting. The current proposal can be found in the following link: https://bitbucket.org/Terkhen/barbsplus-contributions/wiki/Equipment

With regard to rarity, items tagged with UniqueItem have half of the chance of normal items to appear in lairs. With regard to wilderness values, numbers close to 0 are only used in tiles close to starting points, while in most cases tiles with 75+ will only be present on unsettled continents or islands.

You can check our discussion about the proposal in the following issue in the tracker: https://bitbucket.org/lfgr/barbsplus/issue/17/rewards-equipment

Animals

The biggest reason to include new animal types is that currently some terrain/feature combinations do not have nearly any variety. The other reason is improving replayability and adding some variety to the rewards that can be obtained from animals. This means that our intention isn't to flood the world with animals, or to make the game more difficult. Their numbers would still be the same, but travelling to different parts of the world would allow to find different species and would yield different rewards.

In order to understand how animals would spawn, you can check the following page to find details on the tier system implemented on BarbsPlus. As mentioned earlier in the Equipment section, high wilderness values are meant to be very rare. https://bitbucket.org/lfgr/barbsplus/wiki/Dev_-_SpawnPrereqInfos

The actual proposal is detailed in the following wiki page: https://bitbucket.org/Terkhen/barbsplus-contributions/wiki/Animals

This page contains a lot of information about both the current situation and the proposed one. The terrain/tier/animal table shows very clearly the current situation in ExtraModMod, and how things will be with the new proposal. https://bitbucket.org/lfgr/barbsplus/wiki/Animals

This is the issue in the BarbsPlus tracker in which you can check the original discussion: https://bitbucket.org/lfgr/barbsplus/issue/102/missing-spawninfos-on-certain-terrains

Barbarian spawns

The goal of this proposal is adding more variety to both random barbarian spawns, and to spawns that appear as a lair result. The new creatures and spawns do not intend to shadow existing ones, but to provide some change. Ideally, the new random barbarian spawns should not appear more than 20% of the time. What I said for animals holds true for most of this proposal; the intention is not to make the game more difficult. Having said that, there are some new and very rare spawns meant to appear in the late game and that would present some difficulty. The idea is to just give the player some very rare challenges coming from the wilderness, but they shouldn't be extremely difficult to deal with. These spawns also carry some kind of reward in some cases.

The proposal also indicates the plan for Illians, their rituals and Winter barbarians. That part won't be implemented until the content in BarbsPlus is more stabilized and the multiple barbarian factions modcomp (MultiBarb) is included.

The proposal can be found here: https://bitbucket.org/Terkhen/barbsplus-contributions/wiki/Units

You can check the original discussion here: https://bitbucket.org/lfgr/barbsplus/issue/15/new-barbarian-units

Lair exploration texts

Last but not least, we are trying to have an unique description text for all lair exploration results and I've been writing a lot of new text strings both for the existing results and for new ones. I'm not a native speaker, so I would like to have them reviewed so my mistakes can be pointed out, and I'm also interested on any possible improvements (literature isn't exactly my forte). There are also some missing texts for which suggestions are welcome, marked with ???

Azer boss (Spawn): You stumble upon a powerful and aggressive fire spirit.

Balor boss (Spawn): You trigger an ancient summoning circle by mistake, unleashing a powerful demon upon Erebus.

Banshee boss (Spawn): Your reckless ramblings awaken a malevolent elven ghost.

Basilisk (Spawn): Your explorations lead you to a chamber that promises big treasures. Sadly, you stumble upon the chamber's ancient guardian first.

Chort swarm (Spawn): As you go deeper in the lair, what you thought to be a dark ceiling seems to come into life as a swarm of infernal vermin thirsty for blood.

Cornugon boss (Spawn): A demonic creature has been using the lair as its hunting grounds. Your presence provides it with a more challenging prey.

Cornugon Champion boss (Spawn): Same as cornugon boss.

Death Knight boss (Spawn): You have the misfortune of crossing your path with a death knight.

Eidolon boss (Spawn): The lair was being used as a camping site by a cohort of demonic warriors.

Flesh golem (Spawn): While exploring you find a huge obsidian door with engraved incriptions on it. Upon closer inspection, these scribblings appear to be arcane warnings written in ancient Patrian. Soon after realizing this you notice that the seal on the door has been torn apart and that an ancient eldritch horror is starting to wake up in the room behind it.

Gargoyle boss (Spawn): You find a room with a statue and several chairs, desks and cupboards. Suddenly the eyes of the statue flash in a red shine, and the furniture begins to move.

Kraken boss (Spawn): A mass of huge, tangled tentacles emerges from the water, seeking to destroy everything in their path.

Lich boss (Spawn): An undead creature wielding great arcane power intends to prevent you from intruding into its lair.

Manticore boss (Spawn): Your trail has been tracked by a hungry Manticore.

Minotaur boss (Spawn): You manage to escape from a maze-like section of the lair, but a minotaur and its servants come from inside it to pursue you.

Myconid boss (Spawn): While exploring the depths of the lair, you notice that one of its corridors intersects with a recently dug passage in the stone that leads deeper into earth. From the darkness, a weird fungal creature and a cohort of seemingly insane dwarves emerge.

Ogre boss (Spawn): A mighty ogre is using the lair as its hideout. It does not seem to have intruders in high regard.

Ogre Warchief boss (Spawn): Same as ogre boss.

Orc axeman boss (Spawn): A group of marauding orcs attack you.

Revenant (Spawn): Your explorations unearth a revenant that seeks eternal vengeance against the living.

Satyr boss (Spawn): The lair is guarded by a group of defenders of the forest, prepared to repel your intrusion.

Stygian Guard boss (Spawn): A silent horror rises from the dark depths.

Troll Chief boss (Spawn): While you are preparing to explore the lair, a troll chief and its underlings ambush you.

Vampire boss (Spawn): Your presence attracts the attention of a vampire who has been hiding in the lair for a long time. The creature intends to unleash the frustration of centuries of anger and famine upon you.

Werewolf boss (Spawn): Your expedition is halted by the attack of a pack of frenzied werewolves.

Wraith boss (Spawn): A hateful wraith emerges from the lair.

Zombie group (Spawn): Mindless zombies emerge from the lair in great numbers.

Council of Esus (Religion): Deep in the lair you enter in an ancient shrine which seems to be dedicated to the god of Deceit. What you believe to find inside it changes your way of viewing reality forever.

Bless (Promotion): The forces of Good bless you.

Burning Blood (Promotion): A dark power influences you, granting you unholy strength and unquenchable bloodthirst.

Courage (Promotion): The dangers faced in the lair have strengthened your resolve.

Prophecy Mark (Promotion): You find nothing more than a single room with a weird sign daubed on the wall, but after you left you can't banish the uncomfortable feeling of a burden forced upon you.

Remove Crazed (Promotion): Suddenly, the veil is raised. Your thoughts swirl in their violent dance a last time, then calm. You look around, puzzled, but enjoying the unfamiliar feeling of tranquillity.

Valor (Promotion): Your courage is rewarded with an indomitable will.

Shade (Prisoner): You find a prisoner trapped within the lair, a Shade who agrees to join you if you release him.

Amulet of Life (Equipment): You discover an amulet which can keep its wearer's body and soul in the world of the living.

Amulet of the Seas (Equipment): In the middle of a pool of dark waters, you find an amulet floating miraculously on the surface.

Ancient Bow (Equipment): You uncover a weapon from ages past, the Ancient Bow.

Book of Strategy (Equipment): The book from ages past that you find in the lair contains lost techniques and knowledge.

Compelling Jewel (Equipment): In the depths of the lair lie a group of corpses kneeling in front of a throne. Sitting on the throne, another long-dead body is holding a magic jewel.

Conjurer's Wand (Equipment): This featureless wand allows it wielder to strengthen the link with any creatures he summons.

Crystal rod (Equipment): You discover a Crystal Rod, which can be used to unleash the power of the sun upon your enemies.

Flaming Sword (Equipment): A sudden increase in temperature makes you follow a corridor that would have been otherwise overlooked. At the end of it you find an everburning sword.

Frost Spear (Equipment): There is a lone icicle hanging from above in one of the lair rooms. After breaking up the ice you find a spear pinned against the ceiling.

Gloves of Stone (Equipment): You find a pair of magical gloves.

Haste Potion (Equipment): You find a potion that will temporarily grant great speed to those who imbibe it.

Hauberk of Abjuration (Equipment): You find a suit of armor with many protective enchantments placed upon it, the Hauberk of Abjuration.

Healing Potion (Equipment): This potion, created mostly from troll blood, allows to recover from nearly any illness.

Heart Amulet (Equipment): Hidden under a pile of rubble, you find a Heart Amulet.

Holy Water (Equipment): Next to the remains of a monk, you find some vials of holy water.

Krakenfang (Equipment): ???

Menacing Helm (Equipment): Overcoming a powerful desire to flee, you manage to retrieve a Menacing Helm from the lair.

Obsidian Spear (Equipment): You adquire an extremely heavy and durable spear found in one of the darkest corridors of the lair.

Patrian Artifact (Equipment): You find an arcane relic from the times of ancient Patria.

Poison Bow (Equipment): Following a dark passage you find a bow which makes its ammunition dangerously poisonous after firing it.

Portal Scroll (Equipment): You find a magic scroll which promises to set you free if you say the right words.

Radiant Amulet (Equipment): After nearly becoming lost forever in the dark shadows of the lair, you find a magic amulet that allows you to discern the true path to follow.

Ring of Striking (Equipment): You find a magical item that empowers any blows made by its wielder.

Staff of Elements (Equipment): Inside what appears to be the tomb of a mage, you find an arcane staff. Besides that, the tomb is empty.

Strength Potion (Equipment): This potion is supposed to grant physical might to whoever chooses to drink it.

Swift Boots (Equipment): ???

Traveller's Cloak (Equipment): The inscription in this cloak promises its wearer the ability to move fast across the wild lands.

Wand of Foams (Equipment): ???

Wand of Life (Equipment): ???

Wyrmscale Armor (Equipment): A single intact item lies in a cache of equipment rotten and corroded ages ago. This suit of armor appears to be made of authentic dragon scales.

Wyrmslayer (Equipment): You find an ancient weapon from the Age of Dragons, a Wyrmslayer.
 
sounds like a very good plan, in particular I love that you've taken some ideas for new fauna from Kael's awesome bestiary :D
 
[to_xp]Gekko;13776606 said:
sounds like a very good plan, in particular I love that you've taken some ideas for new fauna from Kael's awesome bestiary :D

The bestiary and the rest of the lore have been the only source of inspiration for the barbarian spawns, and for the "special" animals. As you know I prefer to stay as close to the lore as possible, and given the huge amount of existing posibilities there is little reason to look elsewhere :)
 
equipements:
I like it.
I fear that the 90+ wilderness will never exist. (even the +75 seems a bit too high)
(maybe the wilderness values could be re-evaluated based on game experience...they all seems very high for me... but maybe I dont really understand how they are calculated.)
(or maybe some local elements: world wonders improvements / animals lairs / barb lairs... could locally increase the wilderness ? or amount of contigous mountain/forest/jungle ?)

I'm not sure I understood, but maybe "instance" could be linked to chances to have it or rarity level instead of an actual instance... because 2/map/game seems very small and limited, especially for huge maps or marathon games.
-timor mask/menacing helm seems too similar (menacing helm did not get the +CA that you discussed).
-frost spear could be mounted/melee and flaming sword could be melee-recon...

re-animals
-boar seems not really strong... and +2F seems a lot for a weak animal. I'd rather have them at 2F but be stronger.
-great cobra is very weak while giant cobra is very strong while giving the same building.
maybe cobra can go to 1/2+2poison : hard to attack,
when comparing: giant crocodile is not very much stronger than crocodile, but get a better reward (better building)

-gargantuan : I noticed that gargantuan gives +1mvt cost... while gargantuan boar gets +1mvt.. howver with the +1 mvt cost, it stays at 1 mvt/turn
-boar and dwarves : maybe a boar can be upgraded to any boar rider mounted unit if near a city with stable, and the right tech ... similar to the way elephant upgrade to war elephant.
It would be different from goblins which can upgrade on-site, while still allowing units... while not giving a free "pigs".
OR dwarves have a special boar-pen that allow to build boar-riders(other mounted units that need pig ressource) without need of a pig ressource.... (I suppose it would necessitate to create new units that requires no pig and requires boar pen... and that can upgrade to both boar-pen-needing and pig-needing other unit..)
 
I fear that the 90+ wilderness will never exist. (even the +75 seems a bit too high)

I fear the same thing, but it will need more testing to be sure. EMM 0.5.0 should provide more feedback about this. I wonder if certain pockets of high wilderness could be increased artificially to make sure that all maps reach values of 99 at least once. This could work on Erebus-like maps, but it would certainly create weird results on Pangaea maps.

I'm not sure I understood, but maybe "instance" could be linked to chances to have it or rarity level instead of an actual instance... because 2/map/game seems very small and limited, especially for huge maps or marathon games.

They work exactly like the "world unit" limit works for units. If an item can have 2 instances and it has already appeared twice, it won't apppear again at all. I'm not sure about the limit scaling, as some items are meant to be unique. I also fear that since scaling the number would make good items more frequent on huge/marathon, it would encourage farming dungeons. All rewards of exploration are in my opinion meant to just give some small benefit without distracting the player from the real action.

-timor mask/menacing helm seems too similar (menacing helm did not get the +CA that you discussed).

It did not get city attack because the discussion wasn't finished. If my suggestion is agreed upon (Timor Mask would keep Fear/Immunity to fear, Menacing Helm gets Fear/City Attack, Timor Mask stays at 75 wilderness, and Menacing Helm gets bumped to 90), I'll add it to the proposal.

-frost spear could be mounted/melee and flaming sword could be melee-recon...

I like this change :)

-boar seems not really strong... and +2F seems a lot for a weak animal. I'd rather have them at 2F but be stronger.

Boar is meant to be a low tier animal, with a power level similar to lone wolves. 2F may be too much, it could be reduced to 1F.

-great cobra is very weak while giant cobra is very strong while giving the same building.

Other animals get a small reward for their "lower" form and a better one for the "strong" form. What do you think that the giant cobra could give? Having said this, I don't believe it is necessary that everything gives good rewards. Deserts are meant to be punishing places after all.

maybe cobra can go to 1/2+2poison : hard to attack,

The giant cobra is weak for the same reason than the boar; it is meant to be a tier 0 animal.

when comparing: giant crocodile is not very much stronger than crocodile, but get a better reward (better building)

Giant crocodile gets Heavy, which increases its combat by 30% besides the +1 to combat that it gets in comparison with the regular version..

-gargantuan : I noticed that gargantuan gives +1mvt cost... while gargantuan boar gets +1mvt.. howver with the +1 mvt cost, it stays at 1 mvt/turn

To my knowledge, decreases and increases in movement cost work differently than just movement changes. I can't check the differences right now, though.

-boar and dwarves : maybe a boar can be upgraded to any boar rider mounted unit if near a city with stable, and the right tech ... similar to the way elephant upgrade to war elephant.
It would be different from goblins which can upgrade on-site, while still allowing units... while not giving a free "pigs".

I feel that your suggestion is still too similar to the goblin's unique mechanic.

OR dwarves have a special boar-pen that allow to build boar-riders(other mounted units that need pig ressource) without need of a pig ressource.... (I suppose it would necessitate to create new units that requires no pig and requires boar pen... and that can upgrade to both boar-pen-needing and pig-needing other unit..)

That is interesting, but that implementation is rather messy and error prone (it is extremely likely that I would forget to apply balance changes to one of the versions, for example). A proper implementation would require a lot of effort, though :(
 
Other animals get a small reward for their "lower" form and a better one for the "strong" form. What do you think that the giant cobra could give? Having said this, I don't believe it is necessary that everything gives good rewards. Deserts are meant to be punishing places after all.

The giant cobra is weak for the same reason than the boar; it is meant to be a tier 0 animal.

Giant crocodile gets Heavy, which increases its combat by 30% besides the +1 to combat that it gets in comparison with the regular version..

To my knowledge, decreases and increases in movement cost work differently than just movement changes. I can't check the differences right now, though.
  • [1]I agree with that: see the point below

    [2]it's ok for me if GREAT cobra is very weak... but then maybe the reward needs to be very weak... why not have great cobra give a culture boost : 5 or 10culture.. one time only, while giant cobra gives the "cobra charmer" building ?

    [3]it's ok for giant crocodile.. it's just that 5/5 vs 6/6+30% (8/8 without promotions) is not as big a difference as 2/2 vs 7/6 (increase of factor 3.5 for cobras instead of increase of increase of 1.6, less if there are promotions). I was just wondering why a unit 3.5 times greater gave the same benefit, while a 1.6 time greater unit gave better benefit than base: but you answered with the two above points...

    [4]to my knowledge here is how the movement works:
    • movement allows a total of movement points (1 for boar, 2 for giant boar).
    • Tile cost gives the expense of movement points when entering a tile (1for plain/grass / 2for desert / +1 for forest/jungle / +1 for hills)
      • so, when entering a forest, a unit pays 2 movements points ;
      • if it has 1 mvt point, it goes to 1-2=0 (or -1 is some modmods: thus, even a later applied HASTE does not bring the new mvt points to 1 but to 0)
      • if it has 2 mvt points, it goes to 2-2=0
      • if it has 3+mvt points, it goes to 3-2=1 --> it can move again
    • movement costs modify, for all tiles, the cost expended by the unit when entering the tile:
      • heavy increases movement costs for all tiles by 1 / Garguantuan also does that
      • so: a heavy unit uses 2 mvt to enter plains/grass, 3mvt for forest/jungle/hills/desert, 4mvt to enter forested-hills/desert-hills/jungle-hills
    • movement costs are not counted when
      • using roads... and mvt cost is replaced by road movement costs:
      • 1/2 or 1/3 of a movement point.
      • racial moves are used : nomad/dwarves/elves:mvt cost is replaced by special move cost:
      • a move in the tile uses 0.5 if you have 1mvt point and 1 if you have 2+ mvt points.
    • in conclusion
      a gargantuan boar gets 2 mvt points, but it gets +1mvt cost : to enter any tiles it expenses (tile-cost+movement cost) so for entering a forest, the gargatuan boar uses up 3 points.
      However the issue is for entering plains/grasses... the Gargantuan Boar still uses up 2 mvt points!!! ... so even on plain-grass, a Gargantuan Boar can only move 1 tile.
      For other Gargantuan units it is not really a problem: anyway they have 1mvt only, so they are not expected to get to 2moves.
      Even Gargantuan Giant Cobra is not a problem: it goes from 2 mvt, to moving 1 tile : it is the effect of being huge....
      for the gargantuan Boar it becomes an issue : being gargantuan, it especially get 1 more move than normal boar... but this change has no effect... unless the Gargantuan Boar uses roads... in such case it makes use of it... it smells of an issue of design...
    • Anyway, I always hated to have Gargantuan units be slower than normal units.. Malagard and Gurid are so slow... even with hast and mobility 1.
      In "reality" huge units should be faster than smaller units.. they have slower pace, but each pace is much greater than a normal unit pace.. In fact gargantuan units should be quicker than normal units..
 
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