Biggest runaway civ I have encountered (Germany)

So I'm playing a game on the NZ map (mod) as Catherine on King difficulty, standard speed. Aiming for a science victory and doing not as well as I was hoping for; NZ map honestly isn't the best map in the world.

So down south is Germany. A while back, I got a pop up saying Germany had 74 techs, while I had 64. Of course this is where I realise that I probably won't win this game as he is way to far away from me to properly try and stop a science victory, but I play on anyway to see what happens. Germany goes onto finish 2 boosters, the cockpit and the chamber by turn 334, while I've only just finished the cockpit. On the same turn as the chamber, he also produces the UN and the polls show 15 votes. Crap now he's looking at a diplomatic win too. Then I look at victory progress and he's sitting at 4/5 social policy branches, the highest in the game.

How in the world is this possible, even for an AI, and not even on a super high difficulty?

For reference, he has 21 cities, while I'm sitting on 6 and a puppet all around 12-20 pop and the puppet on 1 ( location, only keeping it for the gold lux)

Because everybody else is too busy having fun saying "Deutschland." Aw shucks, let em win.

They are a special brand of AI known as "fast techers". Dangerous fellows to let them run amok in your games.

But Germany isn't as fast as say Sejong or Nebuchadnezzar... or that Hiawatha.

question:

watervolcano said:

How in the world is this possible, even for an AI, and not even on a super high difficulty?

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answer

watervolcano said:

he has 21 cities

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With the AI's basically unlimited happiness, they can happily support infinitely large empires, and if those cities are of a decent size with the right buildings, that's a MASSIVE amount of science.

As for culture, the AI plays on Chieftain, so their policies only cost 67% of the normal amount if i am understanding things correctly.

In short, the AI gets to cheat a ton on every level above Chieftain.
Prince is not actually a fair playing field as even then the AI gets to play on Chieftain.

That said, you should easily be able to outtech the AI...
It is usually a good idea to trim down the runaways with some military action, and this is very doable if you were teching properly, particularly early on.

ense7en said:

It is usually a good idea to trim down the runaways with some military action, and this is very doable if you were teching properly, particularly early on.

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Well if you're familiar with the geography of New Zealand, I started about halfway down the North Island, Germany down the very bottom of the South. Mind you this is on a Large map and his biggest cities weren't coastal.

watervolcano said:

Well if you're familiar with the geography of New Zealand, I started about halfway down the North Island, Germany down the very bottom of the South. Mind you this is on a Large map and his biggest cities weren't coastal.

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Welcome to CivFanatics!

With regards to New Zealand, no, I'm not familiar with it. But on King, you should be able to catch up and subsequently out-tech him provided you're not horribly behind. If you're significantly behind, beeline the science techs and get science buildings up ASAP. If you're pretty close in tech and think you could win a war, beeline the military techs (particularly Dynamite (?) for Artillery or Flight for Great War Bombers). You should be able to have as many units, if not more, on King.

You should check the Demographics screen frequently and look at the Literacy demographic, which shows tech progress. It seems like 1 tech is about 1.3% Literacy (give or take 0.1%), so you can see there if any civ is running away technologically. Once you've figured that out, you have three options: 1) pay as many AI's as you can to DoW the leader, which should usually trim him/her down to size a bit, 2) take the matter into your own hands and beeline Dynamite/Flight/Nuclear Fission, or 3) pay AI's to mass DoW him AND take the matter into your own hands (my preference). Doing one of those can slow down a runaway AI tremendously.

If your current game is going on, I'd recommend building Carriers and stashing them with as many Atomic Bombs as possible (Nuclear Missiles can't go on Carriers). Then, unleash hell on as many of his cities as possible - if you don't have units close enough to take them (or don't care to), drop one or two nukes on each city, which should really hinder production and kill 1/2 (for one bomb) or 3/4 (for two bombs) of his population. Also, try paying the AI's to DoW him, which will make Bismarck focus on units and not the Spaceship parts.

Overall, the key thing with runaway AI's is to trim them down, or at least keep them in check. Whether you're slowing them directly or indirectly, it doesn't really matter if it's effective, but letting a runaway AI continue to run away is a recipe for disaster.

Bismark is really annoying to deal with. He is highly deceptive and also very competitive. Sometimes I find it hard to tell what he wants to do, because he tends to behave very differently every game.

After this post the first UN vote went through (which Bismarck won, game over) he voted for me. At least he was my bff all game...

watervolcano said:

After this post the first UN vote went through (which Bismarck won, game over) he voted for me. At least he was my bff all game...

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It's a consolation prize. At least he didn't DOW you and go for domination as well.

With the chieftain AI handicap (which is there regardless of what difficulty you choose) the mid-to-late game is just too advantageous to a wide, infinitely happy AI empire. You are forced into a war if you want to win with science (makes sense, right?...lol). And on a map where this is made impossible, you're kind of screwed. I'd suggest modding the default handicap and replay it. Unlimited happiness is a major buzzkill in this game.

Regarding the New Zealand map, it is great, IMO. I played as Denmark and spawned on the east of the North Island (great spot), got 5 cities up and running, dowed a neighbour in the south... Pay attention that the jungles on that map give 3 food instead of 2 food . If he spawned in a jungle-heavy area, his cities were probably quite big and full of science. I like the map and think the modder made a great work!

Regarding Germany, in my games he greets me nicely, and as soon as I do something to piss him off (such as breathing or talking to Russia) he denounces me, insultes my army and DOWs in a few turns. Then I see that absurdly huge army of Brutes/Landsknechts and try to survive. If I don't take Berlin, he becomes a competitive douchebag for the rest of the game.