Patronage and City States: Working as intended?

Cajamarca

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 10, 2012
Messages
48
I used to think (in past expansions) that the Aesthetics policy was kind of stupid. Now, though, you can "pledge to protect" every city state you meet, and reach friend status with all of them. With the introduction of Mercantile states, that basically gives enough happiness for a free city.

The city states never actual require you to do anything to back up the pledge of protection. A tiny diplo hit is the only real consequence. They don't even get mad if you let them get swarmed by Raging Barbs or fight a war with another Civ all on their own.

A quick and dirty fix: Pledges of protection should be just like Defensive Pacts, though of course available at game start. Instead of "You won't get away with this," force the player to denounce the AI. Every era-appropriate barbarian (i.e. Brutes in the Industrial Age don't count) the protected city-state has to kill on its own results in a loss of influence equal to what you would gain for killing the barbarian. An equal loss of influence results when a barbarian pillages an improvement or kills a city-state unit.



As an aside, I'd like to know more about what goes on inside city-states and how Scholasticism is calculated. A CS with a population of 8 would make 8 science per turn base. That's 2 science. 3 if they have a library. Either 3 or 4 with a university, depending on if the game rounds up or down. With a Library, University, and National College that's 6-7 science, assuming CS are even allowed to build national wonders. What buildings can they be expected to make?

Come to think of it, how do their workers build farms on riverless snow-covered hills? Why do they sometimes have Warriors and Gatling guns at the same time, and never upgrade their garrisoned archer? How do they always seem to be current with the most tech-advanced civ, even when they only have a population of 8?

Also, I've seen city states capture enemy cities. Usually they raze them, but in one strange case they did not, and I have no idea why. It wasn't a capital or another CS, and city razing was enabled. Also, at least in Vanilla, if you let the game go on long enough, they'll start building aircraft. I remember one CS building a stealth bomber. Where did the aluminum come from? And do they still do that in G+K?

Come to think of it, if you donate a unit that requires a strategic resource to a city-state that doesn't have it, does it take the -50% penalty? If they have it, does it count against their total? If it counts against their total, do they give you less?

And as a final complaint, if you start a game in a later era, when religion is turned off, Religious city states shouldn't be generated. I know they can provide Luxuries and Strategic Resources like any other CS, but their main benefit is wasted. Or as a compromise, Faith can be converted directly to culture.
 
I used to think (in past expansions) that the Aesthetics policy was kind of stupid. Now, though, you can "pledge to protect" every city state you meet, and reach friend status with all of them. With the introduction of Mercantile states, that basically gives enough happiness for a free city.

The city states never actual require you to do anything to back up the pledge of protection. A tiny diplo hit is the only real consequence. They don't even get mad if you let them get swarmed by Raging Barbs or fight a war with another Civ all on their own.

A quick and dirty fix: Pledges of protection should be just like Defensive Pacts, though of course available at game start. Instead of "You won't get away with this," force the player to denounce the AI.
Heh. Most of the time I will take the side of the major AI's over my protected City States. The drop in influence can easily be remedied with gold. Maintaining good relations with major civs is a lot harder. I guess you can call me a sell out for not supporting my CS friends! :lol:
 
I actually really like seeing CSs taking over other cities. In my last GOTM, Hong Kong took out Edinburg, which resulted in them owning a huge expanse of land. I donated 4-5 units to them, planted a spy, and it resulted in an ally providing me 3 unique luxuries and a serious buffer against the two leading super powers. If anything, I'd like to see more of it...
Donate them an artillery (or bomber) with a healing upgrade and they should be more than able to hold their own (well, considering the AI doesn't make some stupid decision).

I'm not sure if they get a penalty or not, but as we've all seen, the AI is not very good at keeping it's units alive...
 
I doubt that "pledge to protect" is functioning as intended. But it would be much easier to cut the patronage policy resting point from 20 down to 15 [can probably be done in one line of an XML file] than to fix all the mechanics involving city states being mistreated.

It's the smallest negative modifier in the game to tell the AI "it will pay for this"; the AI continues to pay full price for luxury. The city state doesn't even care that you didn't follow thru with anything else.

Which makes it a no-brainer to pledge to protect every city state on the map; after completing your first tree, choose Patronage opener & the policy increasing resting point to 20 and then every time a major AI tells you they've mistreated someone, just tell them "you will pay for this", but otherwise ignore the AI mistreating them. (It also means ignoring all bully quests) The only time you won't be friends after that 20 turn wait is if you end up at war or else enemy spy action (a few turns for them rigging/a massive number of turns possible for coup)
 
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