Great People improvements

According to the info in the lower left when a great person such as the Great Scientist is active, their improvements will connect resources to the player's trade network.

I had a great scientist and I had it plant an academy on top of a silver mine, hoping to convert the one added shield into 10 science. Well, that worked but suddenly I lost access to the silver and a turn or two later city states start asking me to connect silver to my trade network.

Is this feature bugged or does it only work with strategic resources like iron/horses etc??

This game is intended for HOF so I can't go back to make a different choice. I either loose the 10 science and regain the 4 happiness (to put me back to 2 positive) or leave the 10 and try to recover the happiness with other sources.

They only work for strategic resources. GP tile improvements have the ability to connect strategic resources because the devs didn't want you missing out on vital resources that you had no way of knowing lay underneath that Academy. (Or manufactory, or whatever) But all luxury resources are visible from the get-go, so there's no danger of accidentally covering them up with a GP improvement.

Yeah, I took another read at what it said on the next GS I got. Started putting 'em on my horse tiles. I figure having +10 per turn over the long haul is better than spending the GS on a tech, at least until modern era or later.

Horse, Iron, Coal, Oil, Aluminium, and Uranium. Yes.

Silver, Gold, Silk, Cotton, etc... No.

Cow, Sheep, Stone, Banana, Deer, etc... No.

The Disciple said:

Cow, Sheep, Stone, Banana, Deer, etc... No.

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Stone, no. Cow and sheep are good. Banana and deer are okay. Flat grassland not on a river is still my strong preference.

I made the same mistake as the OP in one of my games. I learned that hard way that it connected only strategic resources, not luxury resources. Playing as Babylon, I had laid my initial academy (the one with Writing) on some elephants thinking that it was a faster way to get my lux since I didn't have any workers yet. Instead, I had to go the whole rest of the game from Writing to the very end without that ivory.

beetle said:

Flat grassland not on a river is still my strong preference.

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I thought that too, until I realized I needed more citizens to work those.

If you have a cow tile (which honestly, you're always going to work) and a non river grassland with an academy, you get a good yield, but you need 2 citizens to work them. If you throw it on the cow, you have freed up a citizen to do something else.

I don't wanna be working a 2 food grassland. I wanna be working 4 food grasslands. I wanna be working bonus resources. That tipped it for me - Cows, Wheat, Deer, Horses, Sheep, Iron, in that order.

Never bananas. Lose 2 science that way, bad trade.

I'm not too sure about the Wheat. Wheat, Farm, and River, with civil service gives 5 food. The horses I understand - usually I like to put the GE on that or iron, and get 6 or 7 hammers. I wasn't too sure about Cows and Sheep. But the stable already gives you the +1 production, regardless of the tile improvement type. So you really are only loosing 1 food or 1 production. This is acceptable.

Usually, if I'm laying down the GA, GS, or GM, I'm doing it in a dedicated culture, science, or commerce city. Which will have the relevant +10%, or +50% structures/wonders. So I prioritise food over production in those cities. While my major construction city will have the military +XP structures - I put all the GE improvements on that city.

Good pointers on Cows and Sheep. I will try this next time.

The Disciple said:

I'm not too sure about the Wheat. Wheat, Farm, and River, with civil service gives 5 food. The horses I understand - usually I like to put the GE on that or iron, and get 6 or 7 hammers. I wasn't too sure about Cows and Sheep. But the stable already gives you the +1 production, regardless of the tile improvement type. So you really are only loosing 1 food or 1 production. This is acceptable.

Usually, if I'm laying down the GA, GS, or GM, I'm doing it in a dedicated culture, science, or commerce city. Which will have the relevant +10%, or +50% structures/wonders. So I prioritise food over production in those cities. While my major construction city will have the military +XP structures - I put all the GE improvements on that city.

Good pointers on Cows and Sheep. I will try this next time.

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GM and GA can't be laid down in BNW, so the mechanic is a bit different in vanilla vs later expansions.

Planting a GE is usually a bad investment. Ideally, you want to spawn as few as possible of them to begin with because they increase the GS counter, but they are usually better spent on a wonder you need - less production bottleneck.

And yes, you will end up losing 1 hammer or 1 food on the GS plant no matter what. It just depends on what you're comfortable with losing. By wheat, I mean non riverside wheat (which is somewhat rare). You'll only be losing 1 food until Fertilizer that way.

I assume he meant Great Merchant by GM especially if he is referring to an earlier expansionn (in which great musicians don't appear).

This thread has got me to consider planting on strategics and bonus resources in the future.

Also folks, remember to build your Stable before planting on Cows, Sheep, or Horses -- if you only have one resource that qualifies for the Stable. Same thing for Forge and Iron.

Chum said:

That tipped it for me - Cows, Wheat, Deer, Horses, Sheep, Iron, in that order.

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I am curious as to why you put so much distance between Cows and Sheep? I don’t like planting on forested deer, but it’s a free chops, so maybe not bad either way?

Never bananas. Lose 2 science that way, bad trade.

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Look at it in terms of raw yield. Banana+GP is great! Generally, one is only planting early, 100 turns before you would be getting beakers from jungle. I think it is okay.

I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts on how to best use GE, GS, and GM. I always hold onto an engineer until I need to rush a wonder. I always expense a scientist for a tech, and send my merchant abroad to get the cash.

Do most of you create special sites with these leaders instead? Curious if I have been doing this wrong the whole time. I also always create works of art or writing with artists/writers ... and I always spread religion with my prophets

beetle said:

Also folks, remember to build your Stable before planting on Cows, Sheep, or Horses -- if you only have one resource that qualifies for the Stable. Same thing for Forge and Iron.



I am curious as to why you put so much distance between Cows and Sheep? I don’t like planting on forested deer, but it’s a free chops, so maybe not bad either way?


Look at it in terms of raw yield. Banana+GP is great! Generally, one is only planting early, 100 turns before you would be getting beakers from jungle. I think it is okay.

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Cows and sheep is easy - 3 food vs 2 food (or 1, if it's plains sheep). I want that tile to be as food heavy as possible. That's the reason why Deer and Wheat are above them, they are generally 3 food tiles no matter where they spawn. Obviously don't plant on non freshwater desert wheat or something silly like that, but in general, that's the way I go.

And yes, free chop for the deer, no lack of extra yield until economics.

For bananas, raw yield doesn't matter. 42 and an academy somewhere else always wins out over clearing that jungle. You get to education on T100ish, how are you getting a GS on T0? Babylon is the only civ you're going to get 100 turns out of an academy before you get beakers from jungle, after that you lose 2 beakers every turn until the end of the game. Poor trade, imo.

maddskillz said:

I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts on how to best use GE, GS, and GM. I always hold onto an engineer until I need to rush a wonder. I always expense a scientist for a tech, and send my merchant abroad to get the cash.

Do most of you create special sites with these leaders instead? Curious if I have been doing this wrong the whole time. I also always create works of art or writing with artists/writers ... and I always spread religion with my prophets

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Plant the first GS, and maybe the 2nd. The rest of them you save until after plastics to finish the tech tree. Engineers I always use to rush wonders, I really don't think manufactories are good enough to waste them on. The benefits of rushing a contested wonder far outweigh a few extra hammers on a mine. As for merchants, typical plan for most civs (that aren't venice) is to not spawn any in the first place. They reduce the amount of GS/GE that you get, and are very clearly the worst of the 3. A couple hundred gold is nowhere near as good as 8 turns of science or a free wonder.

maddskillz said:

I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts on how to best use GE, GS, and GM. I always hold onto an engineer until I need to rush a wonder. I always expense a scientist for a tech, and send my merchant abroad to get the cash.

Do most of you create special sites with these leaders instead? Curious if I have been doing this wrong the whole time. I also always create works of art or writing with artists/writers ... and I always spread religion with my prophets

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Regarding the second part of the post, GAs and GWs should be bulbed at an appropriate time for a non-culture game. Culture is the only VC where great works are worth it

Chum said:

Planting a GE is usually a bad investment. Ideally, you want to spawn as few as possible of them to begin with because they increase the GS counter, but they are usually better spent on a wonder you need - less production bottleneck.

And yes, you will end up losing 1 hammer or 1 food on the GS plant no matter what. It just depends on what you're comfortable with losing. By wheat, I mean non riverside wheat (which is somewhat rare). You'll only be losing 1 food until Fertilizer that way.

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This is somewhat different to my gameplay. I often tend to oscillate my main cities between production and food focus. With 70% time spend producing, and 30% getting more food. Usually, I'm rushing wonders, or building an army on a war footing, or building infrastructure. During these times I'm on production focus - and this means I get a lot of GE. Sometimes, I micro this into an extreme hammer focus, by producing less food than reqd. and drawing down my food supply, for a few turns.

This means that there are lull's in construction, when I really need to increase my pop. before the next major project. Often, hitting civil service is my time for my pop. to bloom. So I ramp it up ASAP, then get straight back into production. I've always prioritised engineering specialisations though - often building my Capital on the flat so I can get Windmill to get them out faster.

Mid to late game, most of my cities will have switched their focus. Often with all the specialist positions maxed out, and churning out GP's. Especially if I go for Freedom Policy. Commerce, Freedom, and Rationalism, with Statue of Liberty is usually nice. This means that each specialist is producing +2 +1 and +2 on top of their base yield. Often, I will have 4 cities, and each with their own specialisations. A science city next to hill, and lots of jungle. A commerce city (often the Capital). A Military/production city (usually my 2nd city on flat, coast, river). A culture city, either my 3rd or 4th city, or the capital. I usually plant all my GP's.

I've always been planting my GE's, and it's not uncommon for me to have a city with 3 or 4 Manufactories. With this level of production it is possible to turn out wonders in 10 or 15 turns. I often end up on a war footing throughout the late game, so maxing out hammers is usually what wins me games.


Granted though, I'm still playing King (5) on vanilla. Will step up to Emperor (6) and then BNW after mastering this. Will try your recommendations in my next game and see how it goes.

Chum said:

You get to education on T100ish, how are you getting a GS on T0?

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My error, apologies. I was thinking it was something in Rationalism that gave science for jungle, not just universities.

beetle said:

My error, apologies. I was thinking it was something in Rationalism that gave science for jungle, not just universities.

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Rationalism gives +1 per trading post. If you put a trading post in the jungle, with rationalism and university, you get +2 +2 +3 .

Thanks for all the info Chum and Vivalamexico!

The Disciple said:

I'm not too sure about the Wheat. Wheat, Farm, and River, with civil service gives 5 food.

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It's the same trade-off as a wet (fresh water) plains or grass tile, the granary bonus still applies with an academy. So planting an academy on:

-wet plains/wheat w/ Granary: 3F/1H/8+ beakers vs. farm: 5F/1H-- sacrifice 2 food for beakers
-wet plains: 1F/1H/8+beakers vs. farm: 3F/1H-- sacrifice 2 food for beakers
-wet grass: 2F/8+ beakers vs. farm: 4F-- sacrifice 2 food for beakers
dry plains or grass: yields identical to wet post-fertilizer, farms have 1 extra food during the window between CS and fertilizer